Response to past Pimsleur discussions (Language Programs, Books & Tapes) Language Learning Forum

Response to past Pimsleur discussions
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Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes

148 messages over 19 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 15 ... 18 19 Next >>

Kugel
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6537 days ago
497 posts - 555 votes

Speaks: English*

Message 113 of 148

02 August 2007 at 1:55pm | IP Logged

august wrote:

Kugel wrote:

I went through the first 6 lessons of Pimsleur Hebrew as sort of a "review", but more importantly to see if these "comprehensive programs" really are comprehensive. In 3 hours this is what is covered:

1. excuse me
2. hello
3. understand(distinction between talking to male and female)
4. you(male and female, nothing else explained)
5. American/Israeli(distinction between male and female)
6. good
7. very
8. to speak(m. and f.)
9. want(m. and f.)
10. yes and no
11. so
12. to eat
13. to drink
14. something
15. here and there
16. street and square
17. too
18. but
19. it
20. English and Hebrew

I might be off by 1-3 words, but I think I covered them all. Now, I wouldn't be questioning this method, if the Pimsleur program went heavy on the grammar like Michel Thomas, but it doesn't. No explanation as to why one says, "I want(m. or f.) to eat(no distinction for m. and f.) something, please." I think the learner would better remember not just the vocab, but the grammar as well, of course, if he or she understood it in the first place. Here the learner is simply "guessing", going by what sounds right. Guessing on grammar should be discouraged, at least according to Michel Thomas. Guessing on vocab is harmless, but can the same be said for grammar?

Hi Kugel,

I noticed your list of words covered in Pimsleur’s Hebrew. Which edition are you using? I have the 2nd Edition (2001) and I came up with a count more than twice as long as yours. (I suspect you speak Hebrew and you did say you did the course as a “review,” so you may simply have missed some of the more obvious items. However, as a naïve learner, they were very much new to me. I kept a running word list as I did the units.)

Also, in my actual list, I counted both forms of pronouns and verbs as separate items, since this was a new concept/structure for me, counted yes/no, here/there separately, etc. What I came up with was a separate “Word” list.   Listing each item separately as I did, your list of 20 items came to 30 on my list. And to that I added:

    1. know (m & f))
    2. I (m & f)
    3. a little
    4. Ah!
    5. See you.
    6. How are you? (m & f)
    7. Good-bye
    8. Thanks/thank you.
    9. fine/well
    10. and
    11. Where?/Where is?
    12. Rabin
    13. Isaiah (I’m not sure about counting names, but they were new to me and I learned the Hebrew pronunciation.)
    14. please
    15. Hertzel
    16. now
    17. at your place (m & f)
    18. at my place (m & f)
    19. me too
    20. When?
    21. Later. (more late)

Personally, I don’t think I could have handled any more vocabulary in the half-hour lessons.

Thanks for the correction, august. Do you have the entire list typed out?
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august
Bilingual Triglot
Newbie
United States
Joined 6323 days ago
6 posts - 6 votes
Speaks: English*, German*, Modern Hebrew

Message 114 of 148

03 August 2007 at 9:18am | IP Logged

Kugel wrote:

Thanks for the correction, august. Do you have the entire list typed out?

I only have through Unit 8. I started with the 8-unit course, to see if it would work for me, and kept the list at that time. When I went on to the full course later, I didn’t continue.

Would the extra two units help you?
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Kugel
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6537 days ago
497 posts - 555 votes

Speaks: English*

Message 115 of 148

03 August 2007 at 9:56am | IP Logged

No, it would probably not, but thanks.
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Kugel
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6537 days ago
497 posts - 555 votes

Speaks: English*

Message 116 of 148

08 August 2007 at 1:59pm | IP Logged

I hope that this discussion doesn't stop on whether or not Pimsleur's comprehensive programs are worth their price tags. The Pimsleur method was hardly discussed in this thread. No mention on the GIR being applied in Pimsleur's program. The exponential model is not mathematically possible in today's Pimsleur program. And I have a hard time seeing how the 'anticipated response' is inimitable when compared to other language programs. The Israeli paper posted a week or so ago didn't really say anything new. And if it did, then I totally missed it.

A question to forumites with majors in Linguistics:

Are the Pimsleur programs mentioned in courses that deal with SLA(Second Language Acquisition)?

Edited by Kugel on 08 August 2007 at 2:01pm
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Charles Heinle
Language Program Publisher
Newbie
United States
pimsleurdirect.com
Joined 6344 days ago
12 posts - 13 votes
Speaks: English*

Message 117 of 148

09 August 2007 at 8:18am | IP Logged

Charles Heinle wrote:

I will shortly upload to a website for everyone to review. I will be back later with the URL address to download the file.

Sorry this took so long but I've been struggling to figure out a way to upload the promised file. Here is a link where you can download the paper which explains the basic “assumptions” which cover the creation of each Pimsleur Program.

http://www.bestsharing.com/files/Au9zWD316989/Pimsleur-Assum ptions.pdf.html

Edited by Charles Heinle on 09 August 2007 at 8:19am
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Cage
Diglot
aka a.ardaschira, Athena, Michael Thomas
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6623 days ago
382 posts - 393 votes

Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: French, Portuguese

Message 118 of 148

09 August 2007 at 9:38am | IP Logged

You can not expect an explanation for every grammatical point. There are times when you have to be satisfied with that's the way it is. Like in Spanish why are manos feminine gender? Who knows? That's the way it is. Why is the Spanish word for business, negocios plural when ours is singular?

Edited by Cage on 09 August 2007 at 9:41am
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Kugel
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6537 days ago
497 posts - 555 votes

Speaks: English*

Message 119 of 148

09 August 2007 at 6:00pm | IP Logged

Charles Heinle wrote:

I will shortly upload to a website for everyone to review. I will be back later with the URL address to download the file.

Thanks for the link, but there really wasn't anything in the 8 pages that was new. I suppose what I want to see is this: a commentary on any Pimsleur language program's transcript. Of course, I am expecting too much to ask for such a thing, but it would've been nice.

This is what I got from the 8 pages:

1. GIR (the discussion on GIR was more in depth on the article posted in JSTOR, at least from what I recall).
2. Content and function vocabulary

Everything else was trivial.

Edited by Kugel on 09 August 2007 at 7:06pm
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mcjon77
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6610 days ago
193 posts - 248 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Egyptian), French

Message 120 of 148

09 August 2007 at 7:17pm | IP Logged

Thanks Mr. Heinle for the article.

I have two questions. The first is, did Dr. Pimsleur plan on his method to be used as a complete system to achieve fluency? I'm not asking whether the current system can be used exclusively to achieve fluency, but whether Dr. Pimsleur had a plan to create a system that took one beyond the basic competency that the current 3 volume comprehensive courses do, toward actual fluency. Did he plan on using his Pimsleur method exclusively or to gradually introduce more traditional methods to explicitly learn things like grammar rules and vocabulary. I understand if you don't know. I thought that since you are the only person on this site who knew Dr. Pimsleur, that I would ask.

The second question is, considering that the Pimsleur method does stop short of fluency, do you have any recommendations regarding what to do AFTER finishing the 3 volume comprehensive courses?

Thanks A Bunch,

Jon

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