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Response to past Pimsleur discussions | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Roq71 Diglot Groupie United States Joined 6593 days ago 63 posts - 72 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Haitian Creole | Message 41 of 148 23 July 2007 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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I feel really embarrassed for this forum because of the way that Charles Heinle has been treated in this thread. Obviously, he has been instrumental in the development and distribution of a language learning program that has helped many people learn many different languages, which I consider something that should be celebrated by this forum. Obviously, it is not a perfect program. Sorry, but the perfect program doesn't exist. It is a commercially successful program that isn't cheap. Well, neither is my car but I'm not mad at the manufacturer. And criticism for not developing a Pimsleur product for learning vocabulary betrays a lack of understanding of what Pimleur's research was even about.
He's been accused of being evasive (like he owes anonymous posters on this forum anything at all) and a "shill". I'm sure Charles Heinle recognizes the limitations of the Pimsleur programs, but only an idiot would think he would post them on a public forum. I'd like to see the posters here give their real names and an honest assessment of their bosses/workplaces in a public forum. For a forum about learning languages, I would think that his input would be welcomed or at least politely received. Maybe that's just naive, since this forum has treated other language program developers quite badly as well. I'm just surprised that he hasn't yet abandoned us in disgust. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| blindsheep Triglot Senior Member Spain Joined 6359 days ago 503 posts - 507 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: German | Message 42 of 148 23 July 2007 at 7:26pm | IP Logged | ||
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I personally think that responsible and honest people answer questions that are posed directly to them... especially if they continue posting after those questions are asked... fine, people can be evasive, they don't owe it to me not to be, but it doesn't mean I appreciate it or am not going to point it out... I want a world where less people do such things... that'll only happen if someone bothers to call them on it when they do. Charles Heinle owes us nothing UNLESS he wants to get us to purchase his products... then of course he obviously does own us something... he did, after all, come onto this board to persuade us about Pimsleur, not the other way around.
I also think its fascinating to observe such behaviours... since many people manipulate conversations using communication skills far more advanced and subversive than those of Heinle... understanding more about the world we live in is never a bad thing. "It is a commercially successful program that isn't cheap. Well, neither is my car but I'm not mad at the manufacturer." No but you're probably going to buy a different car in the first place unless you get a damn good explanation of why the one car is so expensive... and if the car salesperson gives you no explanation, you are probably going to be suspicious of him. Charles Heinle didn't need to give his name on this forum... in fact if he hadn't given his contact information and then his sales pitch, it certainly wouldn't have devalued his posts. In fact then he would have been free respond more honestly and to usefully criticize his products and figure out ways to improve them with the assistance of a lot of experienced language learners. Anyways he came on to the forum to convince us on the merit of his products. In order for some on this forum to be convinced (being an educated lot) they wanted some questions answered... yet he ignored and tried to evade them... if someone came up to me to convince me to be a member of some cult and then answered none of my questions about it, I'd be annoyed at them, its just human nature... we like straightforwardness in communication, it requires less energy expenditure and thus is evolutionarily effective. Respect and politeness are adjusted based on how one acts... respecting and being polite to people blindly regardless of their actions is ridiculous. Edited by blindsheep on 23 July 2007 at 7:27pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| LilleOSC Senior Member United States lille.theoffside.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6690 days ago 545 posts - 546 votes 4 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: French, Arabic (Written) | Message 43 of 148 23 July 2007 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | ||
Great post. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| manny Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6357 days ago 248 posts - 240 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Tagalog Studies: French, German | Message 44 of 148 23 July 2007 at 8:03pm | IP Logged | ||
Since you replied right after my last post, I assume that I am one of the culprits. :-) The members on this forum behave no differently that an audience of college students questioning a political-religious leader. Remember, Mr H started this thread by boldly saying that our criticisms are pointless. He ended with a money-back guarantee and the company web site in his profile. This is the most informed forum on self-taught language learning (if there is a better one, let me know so I can move). Any business would find a wealth of information on here for free. It is very expensive for a company to develop an on-going focus group. Here we offer the same for free. Any product developer should just lurk on here and learn. Mr H freely came to teach us. Granted, my analogy to the drug dealers may be a little tacky. If the administrators think it is inappropriate, I'll apologize. :-( Thanks. Manny 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| lloydkirk Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6412 days ago 429 posts - 452 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Russian | Message 45 of 148 23 July 2007 at 9:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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Mr. Charles Heinle: There are somethings about pimsleur that cannot be denied.
1.) It is a 45 hour introductory language course. This is not a very effective use of time. 2.) The three volumes amount to a price of over 800$ for what you yourself said is only an intro to the spoken language. You would be hard to find people willing to pay this amount for a complete course. I assume your intention was to present the pimsleur method as an effective method for language learning, well worth the time and financial investment. Fair enough, but you've yet to give us a reason to do either. 45 hours of FSI or Assimil will cover 3x the material. I honestly don't know how pimsleur gets away with their prices. It's down right robbery. I would never purchase pimsleur. No one would. I can easily get pimsleur for free at the library or at torrent sites. Edited by lloydkirk on 23 July 2007 at 10:14pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 newyorkeric Diglot Moderator Singapore Joined 6378 days ago 1598 posts - 2174 votes Speaks: English*, Italian Studies: Mandarin, Malay Personal Language Map | Message 46 of 148 23 July 2007 at 9:52pm | IP Logged | ||
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lloydkirk,
Where did you find point 3? I didn't see those claims on the Simon and Schuster webpage. I could only find them on other webpages that sell Pimsleur products but that don't seem to be affiliated with Simon and Schuster. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| lloydkirk Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6412 days ago 429 posts - 452 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Russian | Message 47 of 148 23 July 2007 at 10:15pm | IP Logged | ||
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I apologize, apparently I wasn't on Simon and Schuster's website. My point 2 should be modified accordingly. Over 1000$ for 3 levels on Simon and Schuster.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| manny Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6357 days ago 248 posts - 240 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Tagalog Studies: French, German | Message 48 of 148 23 July 2007 at 10:35pm | IP Logged | ||
Unless I'm looking at it incorrectly, it is US$500-600 on their web site <www.pimsleuraudio.com> 1 person has voted this message useful |
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