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Lessons learned from fifty years of theory | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6673 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 9 of 34 22 January 2011 at 10:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, time, intensity, interaction... It is unpopular, but pretty obvious. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6673 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 10 of 34 22 January 2011 at 10:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
You are right, but what about people who want to learn the language and cannot live in the country? What kind of practice? I think watching tons of sitcoms is a possible answer, but it is less interactive. I think some people use meetings on Skype, but I do not know how this works. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Tropi Diglot Groupie Austria Joined 5429 days ago 67 posts - 87 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Mandarin | Message 11 of 34 22 January 2011 at 11:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
We got my granddad (70+, monolingual which is sometimes tough on the internet) to use Skype, so it shouldn't be a problem for you. The website explains how to use it anyway. The only problem will be to find people to speak your native language, but just look around in the forums, a few people put their Skype name in their profiles. As for the actual topic, it looks like nothing ground breaking but I'll definitely take a closer look at the end of the semester. Edited by Tropi on 22 January 2011 at 11:27pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5428 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 12 of 34 22 January 2011 at 11:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I don't have anything to say against this list. To me it's all pretty much common sense and fits my observations. I would even dare add that most regulars here at HTLAL would agree.
The problem is in the details. If you look at this idea that conversation is the most difficult skill to master, I would say that it depends on the nature of the conversation and certainly the kind of vocabulary needed. I personally believe that writing correctly and idiomatically is extremely difficult, but then again, there are various kinds or genres of writing. The other issue that I would raise is how to go from these largely self-evident truths to effective learning strategies. I don't think second-language learning has changed since people started speaking. On the other hand, methods, approaches and marketing gimmicks have changed considerably. Just consider the FSI set of learning materials. Are they to be considered the state-of-the-art from the same people who gave us this excellent list of scientific observations? They may think so, but that doesn't prevent dozens, if not hundreds, of others from claiming to have discovered the magic formula for making us fluent (sic) in a very short time. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6673 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 13 of 34 23 January 2011 at 10:12am | IP Logged | |||||
I have been using Skype for the last two and a half years. I am not sure how to join meetings in my target languages. I mean meetings with native speakers to talk about anything and not about learning any language. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6673 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 14 of 34 23 January 2011 at 12:30pm | IP Logged | |||||
If we want to learn a language to near native or professional level, time on task and intensity are the main factors. No doubt about it. If you want to be a polyglot and you only need a basic or low intermediate conversational level, there are tricks, shortcuts and so on. I even think it is possible to make people think that you have a higher level than you actually have. If you want to achieve near native level, this shortcuts can be useful. They are useful because your progress is faster at the beginning. This is very rewarding and makes you work harder in later stages. It is something like a psychological trick. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5428 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 15 of 34 24 January 2011 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Most people have probably not taken the time to read the original article. I highly recommend it. For those HTLAL members who are obsessed with sounding like a native and who think that this should be the language-learner's goal, here is a passage from Lesson 1 that debunks that myth.
"Most adults are not good at eliminating accents and developing a native-like pronunciation, but, for FSI, as stated earlier, proficiency refers to the ability to use language as a tool to get things done. Native accent is typically not a practical criterion for success in this ability (although intelligibility is). But as Kachru (1994), Sridhar (1994), and others have pointed out, mainstream second-language acquisition (SLA) researchers have the “fundamental misconception”—the term is Kachru’s—that the target of foreign language learning is “the idealized native speaker’s competence” (Sridhar 1994:801) or “to use [the language] in the same way as monolingual native speakers” (Kachru 1994:797). Once we identify a more pragmatic goal than “native-like” accent or competence, we can perhaps clarify what we mean by adult language learning—and make it appear more like the learning of other complex skills (McLaughlin 1987)." 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6009 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 16 of 34 25 January 2011 at 12:17am | IP Logged | |||||
There is no myth, so there is no debunking. It is my goal, and it is a valid goal. The fact that it is not your goal doesn't make it "myth". 5 persons have voted this message useful |
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