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Polite words and their implications | ||
Tags: Polite/Informal Forms | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| nebojats Triglot Groupie United States Joined 5197 days ago 89 posts - 120 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Thai Studies: French, Arabic (Written), Mandarin, Italian | Message 1 of 10 13 December 2010 at 8:59am | IP Logged | ||
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Let's say the base sentence is:
"Give me the pen." In Thai, I would add a particle to the end of the sentence to make it more polite. The particle has no independent meaning, but adds a level of formality to the original sentence: "Give me the pen, krap." In English, to make the sentence more polite, I would probably say: "Give me the pen, please." "Please," unlike, "krap," has it's own independent meaning. It seems to me that when "please" is used in this context, it essentially means, "if it pleases you." So, I started thinking... in English, to be polite, we almost always ask for permission from another party. This is strikingly different from Thai, where politeness is generally infused into a sentence by a particle, but the sentence itself remains unchanged (essentially, you're still saying, "give me the pen," but politely). I can't help but correlate this in my mind to the hierarchical tendencies in Thai culture compared to some egalitarian aspects of U.S. (and perhaps the wider English-speaking world?) culture. So, if you were to make the sentence, "give me the pen," more polite in some of your languages, how would you do it, and what are the implications of saying it in that particular way? P.S. Spanish seems similar, as "por favor" is a way of making a request more polite. I'm actually not sure of the literal translation of "por favor." I just tried to mull over it a little bit and got a headache. My first guess for a literal meaning would be something along the lines of "as a favor," although I'm unsure why "por" would be used in that case. If anyone could clearly define its literal meaning, that would be awesome. Edited by nebojats on 13 December 2010 at 9:13am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6704 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 2 of 10 13 December 2010 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | ||
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In Danish you would often make it into a question: "må jeg få/låne kuglepennen"?
"Por favor" would definitely be something "as a favor" (= your exalted highness would do this humble servant at your feet a totally undeserved favor by..."). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| nebojats Triglot Groupie United States Joined 5197 days ago 89 posts - 120 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Thai Studies: French, Arabic (Written), Mandarin, Italian | Message 3 of 10 13 December 2010 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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Translation?
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| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6704 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 4 of 10 13 December 2010 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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må jeg få kuglepennen?
may I get the ballpoint pen? må jeg låne kuglepennen? may I borrow the ballpoint pen? Comments: if you say just 'pen' in Danish it would be more like a fountain pen, and they are so rare nowadays that you probably wouldn't want to lend your pen to anybody. At least I wouldn't. "get" and "borrow" suggest a large difference in meaning. But actually you are supposed to give the pen back to the owner even if you say "må jeg få" - unless it is pretty clear that you intend to keep it. But the built-in threath that you might take it and keep it makes "må jeg låne.." the more polite form. But even polite persons may 'forget' to return a pen. If you want to avoid any discussion you can say "må jeg låne pennen et øjeblik" ("may I borrow the ballpoint pen for at moment?") - then you are signalling that you actually intend to give it back. In informal language you can also say "kan jeg låne kuglepennen et øjeblik?" ("can I borrow the pen for a moment"). Edited by Iversen on 13 December 2010 at 4:00pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5848 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 10 13 December 2010 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | ||
Thank you for explaining this. Det er meget interessant. (= That's very interesting). Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 13 December 2010 at 6:36pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| TixhiiDon Tetraglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5465 days ago 772 posts - 1474 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese, German, Russian Studies: Georgian | Message 7 of 10 14 December 2010 at 3:39am | IP Logged | ||
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Unsurprisingly, in Japanese there are numerous ways of making "Give me the pen" more or less polite.
I guess the least polite way would be 「ボールペンくれよ」 (bo-rupen kure yo), although I wouldn't be in the least surprised if there are other, even less polite ways of expressing this. A friendly, informal register would be 「ボールペンちょうだい」 (bo-rupen choudai). A neutral but polite way would be 「ボールペンをください」 (bo-rupen wo kudasai). From there you go onwards and upwards to 「ボールペンをいただけますでしょうか」 (bo-rupen wo itadakemasu deshou ka) and beyond into levels of politeness that are beyond the realms of comprehesion for mere Westerners like myself. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| cameroncrc Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6518 days ago 195 posts - 185 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Ukrainian | Message 8 of 10 04 February 2011 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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I love Japanese because of all the politeness levels. It adds a dimension to the language that you just don't feel in English.
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