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Hashimi Senior Member Oman Joined 6260 days ago 362 posts - 529 votes Speaks: Arabic (Written)* Studies: English, Japanese
| Message 25 of 37 15 March 2011 at 8:48pm | IP Logged |
I didn't read the articles, but is he the same guy appeared in the BBC Horizon documentary "Why Do We Talk"?
1 person has voted this message useful
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5382 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian
| Message 26 of 37 15 March 2011 at 8:59pm | IP Logged |
PonyGirl wrote:
Had my parents done that, yes it would make me feel incredibly weird, like I was a little test dummy for them to marvel over. It isn't the actual process that would weird me out, it's that the dad even had the desire to do it! Couldn't he just enjoy the beautiful experience of raising a kid? |
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If we all just enjoyed our own beautiful experiences and marvelled at beautiful nature, we'd still be in the Dark Ages.
4 persons have voted this message useful
| Luai_lashire Diglot Senior Member United States luai-lashire.deviant Joined 5829 days ago 384 posts - 560 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto Studies: Japanese, French
| Message 27 of 37 15 March 2011 at 10:22pm | IP Logged |
All the people who question his love for his child should watch the TED video, where you can see him become
emotional in discussing the moment when his son first walked, which he shares with the crowd at the end of the
talk. There's absolutely no indication anywhere that he thinks of his son as a "test subject" or "lab rat" and I don't
think his son will ever think that either. His son is five now, and at the end of the TED talk he also mentions talking
to his son recently about the videos, and how he would have this record of his childhood forever; and his son said,
"so I can show them to my kids?" He clearly doesn't feel in any way violated or unloved.
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| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5767 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin
| Message 28 of 37 16 March 2011 at 5:42am | IP Logged |
PonyGirl wrote:
Bao wrote:
Kuikentje, a baby of that age doesn't have any concept of privacy at all. Just capturing the time on video and using a computer program to analyze the data doesn't hold any risk to harm for the child. Almost every family has some embarrassing stories, pictures of videos of their children, and the poor ones are the ones without, because it's most likely that nobody cared enough for them to remember such anecdotes.
I can understand that this reminds you of cruel experiments, but please believe me that in this case, it is not cruel to the child. |
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Sure the baby doesn't, but the kid will once it is old enough to understand that yes, dad did indeed record every moment of my early life to analyze how I acquired language.
Not exactly something most loving doting parents are thinking about at the moment ;)
Had my parents done that, yes it would make me feel incredibly weird, like I was a little test dummy for them to marvel over. It isn't the actual process that would weird me out, it's that the dad even had the desire to do it! Couldn't he just enjoy the beautiful experience of raising a kid? |
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Why do I think you're American. That's such a typical thing to say and I feel at loss, having no idea how to bridge the gap between our values, and more importantly, our idea about how world should look like or why it doesn't look the way it should.
How if I put it this way: Do you ever take pictures of your friends, your family, a beautiful scenery? You probably do, and if not, are used to looking at pictures taken by other people. Why do people have the desire to take such pictures, why don't they just enjoy the beautiful moment?
It's the desire to remember, to be able to look back and to share the moment with others when it's already gone. I do not know the person in question, but in a way he has shot the ultimate picture of his baby son. And he has done valuable scientific research at the same time. I would call that a rather ingenious idea.
Hopefully with this the off topic will be over and we can go back to discussing the actual content of the article?
What I find remarkable is
Quote:
“Caregiver speech dipped to a minimum and slowly ascended back out in complexity.” In other words, when mom and dad and nanny first hear a child speaking a word, they unconsciously stress it by repeating it back to him all by itself or in very short sentences. Then as he gets the word, the sentences lengthen again. The infant shapes the caregivers’ behavior, the better to learn. |
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Do good second language teachers use the same behaviour?
1 person has voted this message useful
| Sandman Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5409 days ago 168 posts - 389 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Japanese
| Message 29 of 37 16 March 2011 at 6:50am | IP Logged |
"Why do I think you're American. That's such a typical thing to say and I feel at loss, having no idea how to bridge the gap between our values, and more importantly, our idea about how world should look like or why it doesn't look the way it should. "
How does that make her "American"? She seems to be one of the few up in arms about it. I'm not worried about the kid whatsoever, and I'm pretty sure I'm American.
Edited by Sandman on 16 March 2011 at 6:51am
3 persons have voted this message useful
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Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6704 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map
| Message 30 of 37 16 March 2011 at 10:13am | IP Logged |
This thread is close to being closed, and if it derails into the discussion of the nationality of single members and the consequences thereof then it WILL be closed.
1 person has voted this message useful
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh
| Message 31 of 37 16 March 2011 at 3:25pm | IP Logged |
Bao wrote:
Why do I think you're American. |
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Why do I think you're German? Because your profile says you live in Germany and your native language is German.
You probably looked at PonyGirl's profile.
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What I find remarkable is
Quote:
“Caregiver speech dipped to a minimum and slowly ascended back out in complexity.” In other words, when mom and dad and nanny first hear a child speaking a word, they unconsciously stress it by repeating it back to him all by itself or in very short sentences. Then as he gets the word, the sentences lengthen again. The infant shapes the caregivers’ behavior, the better to learn. |
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Do good second language teachers use the same behaviour? |
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To an extent, yes.
In a lot of beginners' classes you won't expect to encounter words you don't know, so the curve really only starts at the bottom point.
At an intermediate/advanced level, you'll find many classes present you with things you're not expected to understand in their entirety. Bits of it you won't be expected to understand at all, and the new material may well be "graded" to make it easier.
1 person has voted this message useful
| PonyGirl Groupie United States Joined 5020 days ago 54 posts - 70 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German
| Message 32 of 37 16 March 2011 at 4:16pm | IP Logged |
Bao wrote:
Why do I think you're American. That's such a typical thing to say and I feel at loss, having no idea how to bridge the gap between our values, and more importantly, our idea about how world should look like or why it doesn't look the way it should.
How if I put it this way: Do you ever take pictures of your friends, your family, a beautiful scenery? You probably do, and if not, are used to looking at pictures taken by other people. Why do people have the desire to take such pictures, why don't they just enjoy the beautiful moment?
It's the desire to remember, to be able to look back and to share the moment with others when it's already gone. I do not know the person in question, but in a way he has shot the ultimate picture of his baby son. And he has done valuable scientific research at the same time. I would call that a rather ingenious idea. |
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My apologies for being off-topic, the values side of it seemed to be what was more discussed, so I wasn't paying attention. (last OT: we're separated by the Atlantic, not by an entirely different values system. You can talk to me like you would talk to any "non-American" if you feel the need)
Quote:
Quote:
“Caregiver speech dipped to a minimum and slowly ascended back out in complexity.” In other words, when mom and dad and nanny first hear a child speaking a word, they unconsciously stress it by repeating it back to him all by itself or in very short sentences. Then as he gets the word, the sentences lengthen again. The infant shapes the caregivers’ behavior, the better to learn. |
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Do good second language teachers use the same behaviour? |
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My 2c: I think that to a certain level that would be extremely helpful, but once you get to a certain level of knowledge (not sure what that level would be) you need to start learning the words that are necessary for normal conversation and grow from there. Words that you need to know are not always going to be the ones that you pick up on easily. This definitely happens in baby learning as well; to a point you let the baby pick up whatever you say, but eventually you do teach the child individual words that are important for him/her to know.
1 person has voted this message useful
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