15 messages over 2 pages: 1 2
Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5767 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin
| Message 9 of 15 10 October 2011 at 1:41am | IP Logged |
Quote:
(e.g. "La llave amarillo") |
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Probably a typo, but how do you know when you're making mistakes, and how do you correct them?
I considered using similar set-ups, but the ideas I came up with always ended with the thought that I couldn't avoid making mistakes. I don't doubt that for every mistake I can self-correct, I make another one I'm not even aware of - and I don't want to automatize mistakes. How do you deal with that?
Edited by Bao on 10 October 2011 at 1:41am
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| fiziwig Senior Member United States Joined 4866 days ago 297 posts - 618 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish
| Message 10 of 15 10 October 2011 at 5:47pm | IP Logged |
Bao wrote:
Quote:
(e.g. "La llave amarillo") |
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Probably a typo, but how do you know when you're making mistakes, and how do you correct them?
I considered using similar set-ups, but the ideas I came up with always ended with the thought that I couldn't avoid making mistakes. I don't doubt that for every mistake I can self-correct, I make another one I'm not even aware of - and I don't want to automatize mistakes. How do you deal with that? |
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More than likely I just made a mistake in using "amarillo" instead of "amarilla". That is, after all, why I NEED practice. Knowing you've made a mistake is a big problem, though. What I try to do as I work through them is give my quick first response then think about it a little more and double check things like gender agreement.
Another idea for self-practice is to go to a second-hand store and buy an assortment of old second-hand Spanish textbooks and just do all the tests, quizzes and homework assignments out of them. Then you can look up the answers in the back of the book and know when you've made an error.
--gary
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| daveyboy Newbie Spain Joined 5283 days ago 33 posts - 46 votes Studies: Spanish
| Message 11 of 15 26 October 2011 at 3:43pm | IP Logged |
This is a very good method.
I have been doing this method on the flash card software [ BYKI ] Transparent languages.
I use the Assimil Spanish book, I take all the useful phrases and put them in to lists of
20 on the flashcard software, with the English translation on the other side.
I listen and do the method with the Assimil book, and do them again with the flash cards.
Every phrase with the flash cards is spoken out loud, you need to be saying the phrases
out loud each and every time for the pronunciation and the talking practice.
This is a great way to make the Spanish stick in the mind..!!
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| jalarcon Newbie United States mercurypoisonin Joined 5195 days ago 5 posts - 4 votes
| Message 12 of 15 01 November 2011 at 8:21pm | IP Logged |
That is a novel way to learn Spanish fairly fast. Thanks for sharing the flash card learning approach.
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| Brun Ugle Diglot Senior Member Norway brunugle.wordpress.c Joined 6621 days ago 1292 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English*, NorwegianC1 Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, Spanish, Finnish
| Message 13 of 15 03 November 2011 at 6:38pm | IP Logged |
A lot of traditional language programs had these kind of drills. Modern language programs sometimes have them, but not nearly to that extent. I think FSI might have them or you can try other programs from the 50's or 60's. They are usually called substitution drills and are usually recorded. It was quite similar to what you are doing.
On the recording, there would be an example sentence like "I bought a blue pen." Then you would hear a word like, "red," and have to give the sentence "I bought a red pen." Then you would hear the correct response on the recording so you could check yourself.
Making your own drills sounds like a great idea, except for the problem of checking yourself. But that doesn't have to be a big problem if you are doing it for things you already know. It sounds like you already know the way subject and verb agree and the way nouns and adjectives agree, etc. So if you are just using it to increase your speed, I don't think it is such a huge problem that you can't check yourself. You actually know the answer, you are just trying to make it come out without thinking.
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| samfrances Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4053 days ago 81 posts - 110 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish
| Message 14 of 15 05 June 2014 at 4:28pm | IP Logged |
I'm sure with a simple rule like adjective agreement, you could create a computer program or a spreadsheet to calculate all the combinations and the correct Spanish phrase. Then you could pay someone like an italki tutor to check the generated sentences for you, and then feed the spreadsheet into anki. That way you effectively get all the possible combinations, and you get to objectively check your responses.
EDIT: I just spent an hour trying to do this. It doesn't look like this is doable using a spreadsheet program, as there is no function for producing Cartesian products.
Edited by samfrances on 05 June 2014 at 6:39pm
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| Random review Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5784 days ago 781 posts - 1310 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin, Yiddish, German
| Message 15 of 15 06 June 2014 at 4:52am | IP Logged |
fiziwig wrote:
I've been playing around with an idea that seems to be helping my fluency in creating
novel sentences in my target language (Spanish). I have made a set of flash cards out of standard file
cards. The flash cards are divided into groups depending on what type of drill I need.
As a very simple example, suppose I need to practice adjective agreement in Spanish. I may know, in
theory, how to make adjectives agree in gender and number with their noun, but what I need to drill on is
fluency in rapid-fire conversation so that I don't have to take 1 to 2 seconds to think about each adjective I
try to use. For this particular simple example I would use two stacks of cards. One stack with singular and
plural nouns in English and the second stack with adjectives in English. The two stacks must have a
different number of cards in them.
Now turn over the top card of each stack, for example "red" "books", and supply the answer aloud "los
libros rojos". (These are words that you already know so there is no "answer" on the back of the card.)
Then turn over the next card on each stack, (e.g. "La llave amarillo") and continue through the deck.
Since the stacks have a different number of cards you will run out of one stack before the other. Just turn
over the used stack and start reusing it. If you have, for example, 25 nouns and 17 adjectives you will see
25*17 = 425 different combinations by the time you work through the whole deck.
For other drills, such as verb tenses, person and number you can have more stacks. I'm using one right
now that uses five stacks, a stack of subjects (I, you (formal), they, my parents, ... etc) a stack of verbs
(has, needs, wants, sells, sold, buys, bought,... etc) a stack of determiners (the, a, some, several, 26, all of
the, ...) a stack of adjectives (small, large, blue, heavy,...) and a stack of nouns (book(s), briefcase(s),
hat(s), key(s)... etc) With this set of cards I can get thousands of different sentences to drill on like "My
father asked for some blue hats."... etc.
Some of the sentences come out sounding a little silly, but they still work for spoken fluency drill. I've
found my spoken fluency improving noticeably after only a couple days of using these decks. I'm toying
with the idea of implementing the method in PHP so I can put it on a web server, or a local server like LWT.
--gary |
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How do you get feedback that you got it right, though. For instance you made a mistake
in your post without noticing, it should be la llave amarilla. How would you notice the ones you get wrong
in your practice sessions?
Edit: damn, Bao got there first. B******!
Edited by Random review on 06 June 2014 at 4:53am
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