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Best way to master correct conjugation? | ||
Tags: Morphology | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5382 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes  Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 9 of 41 23 October 2012 at 1:54am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I think you missed my joke. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5767 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 10 of 41 23 October 2012 at 2:55am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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In addition to more traditional routines like writing down vocabulary with the article and trying to memorize paradigms and rules, I fare best memorizing lesson texts that introduce new paradigms.
I currently use a method I read about on htlal - I copy the text by hand, reading it aloud. Then I write down the first letter of every word as a cue and repeat the text sentence by sentence until I can read all of it aloud, using my cheat sheet only. The next day I write down the entire text using the cheat sheet. That not only enables me to use the forms, grammar points and sentence patterns introduced in the text, but it also trains me to identify and use agreement as a tool for figuring out gender and declension or conjugation of unknown words. I guess it works for me because usually, my brain classifies information like prepositions, declension and conjugation as secondary, necessary for comprehension but nothing it wants to actually remember later on. Memorizing text corrects that bias for me. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| ProfesorRich Diglot Newbie Spain profesorrich.com Joined 4525 days ago 10 posts - 11 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German | Message 11 of 41 25 October 2012 at 2:52pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Very interesting. Thanks for the help.
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| Rout Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5713 days ago 326 posts - 417 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish Studies: Hindi | Message 12 of 41 16 November 2012 at 6:39am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Translation exercises, like the type found in Hugo's German Simplified. I'd do 30 minute rounds of these with a kitchen timer (which strangely helped me keep focused).
I started with Pimsleur German, and since this was my first language it sort of tricked me into being overconfident in my abilities. After I finished Pimsleur I-III (and plus which was worthless), I noticed that I could speak with automaticity but I was very limited. I then spent a couple of months where I didn't speak (I'm not suggesting that you don't speak), just went through Teach Yourself German by John Adams which gave me the structure, then went through Hugo's German Simplified which drilled it into my brain. After I finished, I tried speaking and writing and it just poured out, all verbs correctly conjugated, all pronouns and nouns correctly declined (with the odd mistake of course). It was phenomenal. To finish things off I went through the FSI Basic Course. I can still hear the actors and narrator in my head. Really tied everything together. I wish my other languages were so automatic! To sum up my suggestion, I'd say just spending time with the language (like 2 years of daily study) will get you where you want to go, but if you want to get there really fast then do lots of translation drills. This is basically how I got really good at math too; bunch of problems, kitchen timer, and pencil & paper. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 13 of 41 16 November 2012 at 11:24am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Hearing FSI in your head sounds like a nightmare...
It might seem like I'm attacking you on purpose but of course I'm not. But translation execrises can make it more difficult to think in the language without translating. I generally avoid them. Not to mention they tend to consist of sentences I'll never use. Simply writing a lot shouldn't be any less useful, unless you're avoiding unfamiliar grammar, of course. Also, there are many ways to use a kitchen timer in language learning. Have a look at timeboxing and AJATT if you're interested:) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Rout Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5713 days ago 326 posts - 417 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish Studies: Hindi | Message 14 of 41 16 November 2012 at 6:04pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
There are different kinds of learners. I am the type of learner that learns most quickly with drills, i.e. by doing. I don't find all drills useful though, really only translation drills. My favorite lesson format (or at least the one I profit the most from) is: Here's a grammar point and here's how it works. Here are two example sentences with that grammar point being used. Here is a list (in increasing order of difficulty) of sentences for you to translate. The list will also contain points from past lessons reintroduced at graduated intervals to increase your retention. When you're done translating the sentences, check your answers with the answer-key in the back. Simple and it works. It's worked for centuries as a matter of fact. I agree that FSI can be the thing of nightmares, but if you already know the material, know the language, FSI isn't that much of a beast to work through to check your weak points in grammar and iron out your wrinkles, plus it really helps your speed. There aren't too many language learning programs that give you the language at a naturally spoken pace. [EDIT] I just wanted to add that translation drills have never made it harder for me to think in a language. They've made it easier. In the case of German for an English speaker it's even more true since, while there are obvious differences, structurally English and German are very similar. For instance, I frequently use sentence structures involving auxiliary verbs (e.g. "I haven't done it.") in English and, from doing so many translation drills, they just roll off the tongue in German (e.g. "Ich habe es nicht getan," or in the spoken language, "Ich hab's nicht getan." [the preterite is really only used in literature, so you wouldn't hear "Ich tat es nicht," for, "I didn't do it," you'd hear, "ich hab's nicht getan for both]). Constantly comparing and contrasting the differences through translation helps you notice the minute details so that when you come to an sentence with slightly more complex structure (e.g. "Ich hab's noch nicht getan." = "I haven't done it yet."), you'll notice the differences. When a similar structure is then used in a slightly more complex way (e.g. "Ich hab's noch nicht getan, aber ich werde es bald tun," = "I haven't done it yet, but I'll do it soon.") you already have the intuition to properly place the new adverb, etc. This is just an example. I figure since the person who posed the question had a similar background, he might use his advantage of knowing English in learning German by doing translation drills and comparing and contrasting the sometimes thinly veiled differences between the two languages. I'll also point out that this is the point behind the "active wave" of Assimil and the reason you can't really say much until you do it. The "active wave" of Assimil is little more than one big, long translation exercise. Edited by Rout on 18 November 2012 at 12:45am 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| reineke Senior Member United States https://learnalangua Joined 6448 days ago 851 posts - 1008 votes Studies: German | Message 15 of 41 16 November 2012 at 10:43pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Listen, read, write. Ponder, then speak.
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| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 16 of 41 16 November 2012 at 11:48pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
In your opinion, what are the benefits of translating compared to writing your own texts and getting them corrected at lang-8? Assuming you actually make an effort to use the grammar that you're not entirely comfortable with. The translation exercises are the only thing I don't like about Assimil, actually. Even though you're supposed to be able to translate by combining the phrases you already know, rather than word by word. I don't think we're that different as I used to enjoy formal learning a lot more. But now I'm addicted to learning things naturally:)
Edited by Serpent on 16 November 2012 at 11:48pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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