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Wann bist du geboren? (German)

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Random review
Diglot
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 Message 25 of 71
12 January 2014 at 6:09pm | IP Logged 
Josquin wrote:
Random review wrote:
Is it instead a shortened version of "Wann bist du geboren
worden?"?

I think this is the solution to the mistery. Another possible answer would be idiomatic usage. The whole
construction strikes me as rather colloquial though.

EDIT: By the way, the verb in question is "gebären", not "*bären", which doesn't exist.


Yeah, sorry about that. I've edited my post. Thanks.

Regarding whether it might be a shortened version of "Wann bist du geboren worden?" . I guess that might

solve the mystery, as you say, but does that kind of shortened version happen with any other verbs tat you

know of? I'd be a lot more convinced if it did.

Edited by Random review on 12 January 2014 at 6:16pm

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Josquin
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 Message 26 of 71
12 January 2014 at 6:11pm | IP Logged 
Moreover, one can say: "Das Kind ist geboren", which translates to "The child has been/is born". Confer: "Uns ist ein Kind geboren" = "Unto us a child is born". So, why not ask "Wann bist du geboren?". It doesn't seem so odd, does it?
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Diglot
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 Message 27 of 71
12 January 2014 at 6:14pm | IP Logged 
Josquin wrote:
Moreover, one can say: "Das Kind ist geboren", which translates to "The child has been/
is born". Confer: "Uns ist ein Kind geboren" = "Unto us a child is born". So, why not ask "Wann bist du
geboren?". It doesn't seem so odd, does it?


It still does, though:

Das Kind ist geboren = the child is (in a state of being) born, which makes perfect sense.
Wann bist du geboren = when are you in a state of being born, which makes no sense to me.

Edited by Random review on 12 January 2014 at 6:16pm

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Josquin
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 Message 28 of 71
12 January 2014 at 6:16pm | IP Logged 
No, you're misunderstanding the construction. "Zustandspassiv" describes a result and not an ongoing process. The latter is expressed by "Vorgangspassiv":

Das Kind ist geboren. = The child has been born. (It's in the state of having been born)
Das Kind wird geboren. = The child is being born. (It's in the process of being born)

Edited by Josquin on 12 January 2014 at 6:18pm

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Diglot
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 Message 29 of 71
12 January 2014 at 6:19pm | IP Logged 
Josquin wrote:
No, you're misunderstanding the construction. "Zustandspassiv" describes a result and
not an ongoing action:

Das Kind ist geboren. = The child has been born. (It's in the state of having been born)
Das Kind wird geboren. = The child is being born. (It's in the state of being born)


I haven't misunderstood- I just expressed myself ambiguously: I meant "in a state of being born" in the
sense of "in a state of having been born" (in the sense of "he is now born"); not in the sense of "in the
process of being born". I should have
expressed myself more exactly and unambiguously.

Edited by Random review on 12 January 2014 at 6:21pm

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tarvos
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 Message 30 of 71
12 January 2014 at 6:22pm | IP Logged 
Why? You're alive, so you have been born. Nothing weird about that construction - in fact
I would probably even use "Wann sind Sie/bist du geboren" because it translates so
directly from Dutch. :)
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Josquin
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 Message 31 of 71
12 January 2014 at 6:26pm | IP Logged 
Okay, I think it's just colloquial language where the "worden" can be omitted. There are more examples for this:

Wann bist du geboren (worden)?
Wann ist das Haus gebaut (worden)?
Wann bist du getauft (worden)?
Wo ist er begraben (worden)?

Edited by Josquin on 12 January 2014 at 6:26pm

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Random review
Diglot
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 Message 32 of 71
12 January 2014 at 6:26pm | IP Logged 
tarvos wrote:
Why? You're alive, so you have been born. Nothing weird about that construction - in fact

I would probably even use "Wann sind Sie/bist du geboren" because it translates so
directly from Dutch. :)


It doesn't normally work that way with resultant states, though. If you are talking to someone who is ill,
you wouldn't ask them "when are you ill?" but rather "when did you fall/get ill?".


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