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Present perfect /present perfect continou | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5010 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes  Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 17 of 30 29 January 2014 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
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If I read the sentence in a book or hear it from a british or in Doctor Who or Sherlock, I will expect it to be so. If I hear it from an american or in an american tv series, I will judge from the context. I am unsure whether I've ever heard/read an american use present perfect continuous actually. I think it is a much rarer animal on your continent :-) Edited by Cavesa on 29 January 2014 at 4:34pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4522 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 18 of 30 29 January 2014 at 4:44pm | IP Logged | |||||
I think your last sentence hits the nail. When using present perfect in these examples, it's just not relevant for the conversation where you are now. If it were, you'd be using the continuous form. But I think B) can have the same meaning as A) with the additional information that this period was long. eg. Person A: "Have you ever worked in a foreign country?" Person B: "Well, I've worked in London for a long time. I've also worked in Germany." Sure, person B could still be working in London, but it's not a relevant information here. Without a context, the implication of still being in London is the strongest in B). But it's an implication, not given by the semantics of the tense + PP. With a specific context, the implication can be deleted, the semantic value can't. Edited by daegga on 29 January 2014 at 4:49pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5229 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 19 of 30 29 January 2014 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
Interesting. Also, the present perfect continuous seems to me perfectly natural. Surely I'm not the only one reminded of the old Groucho line: "I've had a wonderful evening, but this wasn't it." 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4666 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 20 of 30 29 January 2014 at 4:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
Your example involving Kate's paint-spattered clothing presents no problems to me from a British English point of view and seemingly doesn't trouble @ScottSheule either, and he's apparently in the US. His comments about "for a long time" seem to agree with mine. So, it would seem that both from a US perspective and a UK perspective, "I have worked in London for a long time" means I'm working in London right now and I've been doing so for a long time. "I have worked in London" means I've had the experience of working in London, but that's not what I'm doing right now. The UK and the US seem to be in agreement here. So to return to the original examples:
ex1 and ex2 both mean that I'm working in London right now and that has gone for some time. If you discard the "for a long time" part then ex1 means that I no longer work in London. Without "for a long time", ex2 is ambiguous, although you might find some context to give away whether you are currently earning your daily bread in London. A: "I've not seen you lately." B: "I've been working in London" I might still be working in London (but I'm back home for the weekend) or I've been working in London but that's stopped now (which is why I'm back and I won't be going away again). 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5321 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 21 of 30 29 January 2014 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Michael Swan suggest the following usages in his book "Practical English Usage:"
1. Present Perfect for non-progressive verbs: I've only known her for two days. not: I̶'̶v̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶b̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶w̶o̶ ̶d̶a̶y̶s̶. 2. Present Perfect Progressive/Continuous for shorter, temporary actions and situations and Present Perfect for longer lasting or permanent situations: I haven't been working very well recently. vs. He hasn't worked for years. 3. Present Perfect if you can ask how much?, how often? I've been playing a lot of tennis recently vs. I've played tennis three times this week.
I could imagine two different contexts for each sentence. Imagine a company meeting in Paris, and the manager needs to send someone to London. One of the employees might say "I have worked in London for a long time." However, I wouldn't expect the answer "I have been working in London for a long time." because that would imply that the employee is in London and is still working there. If the meeting happened in London, the answer "I have been working in London for a long time." would make more sense. Are these artificial differences only found in grammar books? Edited by Doitsujin on 29 January 2014 at 5:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5229 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 22 of 30 29 January 2014 at 5:39pm | IP Logged | |||||
Now I'm thoroughly confused. I thought Cavesa said US and UK English differ on this point. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7206 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 23 of 30 29 January 2014 at 5:40pm | IP Logged | |||||
And perhaps it's because the present perfect continuous (ppc) is frequently done with a contraction, just as Groucho did. E.G., I've, you've, we've, they've, he's, she's had a tough time with English grammar. I.E., if one isn't paying close attention, one could mistake the ppc with the past perfect (I had ...). Not that anyone here would do that. Another complication is that native speakers don't usually pay that much attention to word selection. It just comes natural, and natural is by some definitions "correct". E.G., once "I'm good" becomes common usage, it is by definition correct (as opposed to "I am well", which is more likely to be the way expressing this condition would be taught.) Edited by luke on 29 January 2014 at 5:47pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5229 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 24 of 30 29 January 2014 at 5:42pm | IP Logged | |||||
Valiant try! But to my ear they still both work as answers to the manager's question and mean the same thing. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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