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Questions real pronunciation - Croatian | ||
Tags: Croatian | Pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Evanitious Triglot Newbie France Joined 4517 days ago 36 posts - 39 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC1, Italian | Message 1 of 5 20 February 2014 at 2:30am | IP Logged |
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Hi !
I know that in Croatian language, words are pronounced as they are written but is it really like that in everyday life conversations ? In French, there's a lot of differences between what you can read and hear. Let's take an example : "je te dis à bientôt car je n'ai pas le temps". 99% of the time I will pronounce this way : "j'te dis à bientôt car j'ai pas l'temps" or "j'n'ai pas le temps". Of course, sometimes I pronounce exactly as it's written, but it's depending more on the context, if I want to insist or something, or I don't know, it's hard to explain. "Je dois y aller" and "j'dois y aller", I use them both 50/50. But the "y aller" is always contracted. For the letter "y" you won't here the sound "e" like in English "e-mail" as it should be pronounced, it actually would be pronounced like an English "y" like "yeah" => je dois yaller. Sorry if it's confusing. Italian is also a language in which you pronounce like you read. Though in the daily language I noticed they "cut" some letters, especially at the end of words. But it seemed far less frequent than French. The main example I have in mind is : "Anche io" => anch'io. "anche a te" => "anch'a te" But to be honest, in most cases it was always pretty close to what's written or I didn't pay enough attention. There certainly are a few other examples but the only one I can remember right now it this one. I was wondering how it's working in Croatian, if you have some examples, please ? What would I hear in the real life ? Also, when asking a question, I would like to know honestly what I would hear in everyday life. I'm playing a video game and I rarely see " verb + li ... ?", I never see "da li" at all... even with Serbs. The most common form I find is : jel. Jel znas ? I even found this "jel si" instead of "jesi li". Many times I noticed the "li" was omitted : imas vodu ? jesi dobro ? I'm not asking you about the correct version, what is right grammatically, I just want to know how it's really spoken even if it's not correct. Also with this one "pozdrav". Do people really say "pozz" or is it only on the internet ? Thanks a lot for your help ! Edited by Evanitious on 20 February 2014 at 2:33am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Evanitious Triglot Newbie France Joined 4517 days ago 36 posts - 39 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC1, Italian | Message 2 of 5 20 February 2014 at 3:10pm | IP Logged |
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I found some on google :
kol'ko = koliko nekol'ko = nekoliko tol'ko = toliko k'o = kao hoj = hoces 'oli = hoces li I have to admit the three first contractions make sense. "oli" is "understandable". But how do you distinguish "k'o" and "ko" if you're Serb ? "ko to tamo peva ?" Sure, I guess the context will help. In this one, it's obviously "who". And I don't know how you go from "hoces" to "hoj". Anyway, it doesn't really matter if you have no explanation, I'm pretty sure there are a lot of things I wouldn't be able to explain in my own language. Besides... I don't even know in English how you go from "want to" to "wanna". I just wanted to be sure these contractions are really used ? I've never seen "oli" or "hoj", of course I'm only going on (written) chats but most of the time I find "oces li ?" and almost never "hoces li". Anyway, I just wanted to post in here the few contractions I've found out. Have a nice day. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4666 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes  Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 3 of 5 20 February 2014 at 3:53pm | IP Logged |
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hoćeš li doći?
bu(de)š došao? in Zagreb and in Northwest ćeš doć(i)? in Istria oš doć? in Slavonia and Dalmatia - doći ću contraction: doću in Slavonia and Dalmatia - resistence to fusion of infinitives napravit ću /napraviću/ napravit ću (spelling pronunciation) napraviti ću, in Zagreb (full form used) ću napravit in Istria (proclisis prefered, unstressed auxiliary verb first, then full verbal form) - kako, tako, onako.... kak, tak, onak o dropping in question words and adverbials in Zagreb and in Northwest - dialectal realization of yat reflex: ije - e - i dve - in Zagreb, Northeast dvi - on the Coast dvije - in the rest - unstressed posttonic I silent: otvorite, gospodine, Hercegovina -> otvorte, gospodne, Ercgovna, in Herzegovina and inland Dalmatia izvolite -> izvolte, general colloquial Croatian, used in all regions koliko, toliko --> kolko, tolko (general colloquial Croatian, except in Istria where the standard pronunciation is used [ko'liko], [to'liko]...) - naime /najme/ rhymes with ajme (AI is not conserved unlike in IAKO which is not pronounced /jako/) - other phenomena: -intervocalic M dropping: ne mogu -> /'neogu/ in colloquial Croatian (/ne'mogu/ in standard language) -change from M to N: znam -> znan on the Coast (both final M and N are not strongly pronounced in Croatian, they're somewhat unreleased) -dropping of I of infinitives: ići, doći, napraviti -> ić, doć, napravit (all Croatia except from Northeast) -LJ is [j] on the coast (like in modern French)> ljudi /ju:di/, ljubav /'ju:baʋ/ -syllable R is realized as shwa+R in Western Croatia> krv [kə:ɾʋ] -silent H in bih: (ja) bih -> ja bi (I would) -proclisis in questions: daš mi? -> mi daš? -general proclisis> a) in Istria: se vidimo (for '' vidimo se''), b) in Northwest: se razme (for ''razumije se'') -different stress (extremely variable, some funny examples from Dalmatia: Italija ['italija], Amerika ['ameɾika], Kristina ['kɾistina] stressed on the 1st syllable, Monako [mo'nako] stressed on the 2nd syllable) Edited by Medulin on 20 February 2014 at 4:24pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Evanitious Triglot Newbie France Joined 4517 days ago 36 posts - 39 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC1, Italian | Message 4 of 5 21 February 2014 at 5:04pm | IP Logged |
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Thanks a lot Medulin for this big reply.
I think I also noticed that sometimes the "j" is not pronounced, or very very slightly. In a video :"Ona je", "bilo je" It sounded like "onae" "biloe" 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4666 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 5 of 5 21 February 2014 at 6:59pm | IP Logged |
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Yes, intervocalic J is frequently dropped:
-What's happening-? is said KAE [ka.e] in Zagreb which is a reduction of Kaj je? Kaj is a Northwestern word for što (what) In Croatian, što is chiefly a written word, in speech KAJ is used in Zagreb and in the Northwest, ČA in Istria and the rest of Western coast, ŠTA in the rest of Croatia (Slavonia, Dalmatia, city of Rijeka). Edited by Medulin on 21 February 2014 at 7:00pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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