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Fate of HTLAL | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 169 of 178 12 August 2015 at 10:18pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Maybe because political discussions concern actual forum members? If people were discussing "is Juan a zombie because who the hell reads anymore?" you wouldn't like that either. (Of course I understand that it's a privilege to expect representation in any international politics discussion) Sigh, emk once posted a great link explaining why telling people not to look at what bothers them is a bad idea, but I can't find it anymore :( edit: and he made another great point, the mods can't choose to ignore this kind of discussions. Edited by Serpent on 12 August 2015 at 10:48pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5343 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 170 of 178 12 August 2015 at 11:22pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
By that reasoning we shouldn't be talking about languages either, because someone might be of the view that our native language or one we have chosen to study is too easy/difficult/mainstream/rare/useless/uninteresting. As pointed out earlier by Josquin, the types of conversations that initially drew me to the forum either do not take place anymore or are no longer relevant to me. In my case, I used to love topics related to language-learning materials, as well as those that discussed the cultural, literary and intellectual production of the different language traditions, in addition to their relationship to each other, both literary, historic and linguistic. Assimil and Colloquial were once new and exciting to me. Now I have read several of them, own dozens upon dozens more, and know by heart the different generations of Assimil. Discussion regarding stand-alone manuals of substance has become nearly nonexistent, with attention being devoted instead to the latest "hot" apps, technology and flashcards. Just compare participation in the thread discussing the demise of Dunwoody Press -a genuine catastrophe- with those devoted to the ipad or kindle. Regarding literature and culture too, you have either Harry Potter in Finish or zombie stories in Spanish -if reading is broached at all-, or if a conversation becomes too stimulating and involved, it is locked for transgressing a strict topical boundary or degree of disagreement. What this forum desperately need is to become more involving and engaging, not even more repetitive, bland and polite. If I become interested in and am following a discussion on something else, it is more likely I will be around and answer a topic that otherwise I would not have even seen. Those who easily become offended - they need simply not look into the offtopic subforum or any potentially jarring threads. What can be easier than that? Edited by Juаn on 12 August 2015 at 11:37pm 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4887 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 171 of 178 12 August 2015 at 11:29pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I miss the types of intellectual discussions I see in the archives too. I've seen some start in the past year, but they seem to fade out quickly. I think having an absentee owner explains part of the shift. He set the tone for the original HTLAL, and he was active in the more academic / intellectual threads. The banning of Caintear was traumatic for a lot of people, and I also sensed a change afterwards. I hope that in any new HTLAL (or user-owned HTLAL) we could allow for time-outs or temporary suspensions. The mods had to put a stop to the Caintear/Benny fight, and it's a shame there weren't intermediary options between 'warning' and 'banning.'
Does this actually happen? It seems like a straw man argument. There was a recent thread on Arabic that touched on colonialism, history, conflict, the Arab Spring, immigration to Europe, economics, religion ... and wasn't locked down at all. http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=40662&PN=0&TPN=7 Can you give a single example of a topic that was actually shut down for "transgressing a strict topical boundary?" Edited by kanewai on 12 August 2015 at 11:40pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5343 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 172 of 178 12 August 2015 at 11:34pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
No, they actually needn't. Disagreement is not bad; it is good. That they did is what drove the forum to its present state. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 173 of 178 13 August 2015 at 12:17am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I wouldn't actually say I'm more sensitive than other people here. I've simply learned to see patterns that I used to dismiss, and that have appalling implications if you really think of them. My reaction is not necessarily disproportional either - casual racism, sexism etc is still that. I simply happen to think there's no minimal standard of damage that should be met before these things are recognized. And I know that most people didn't mean it in a bad way. I also have a sense of humour, I just don't find some things funny for the same reasons that many people enjoy them. And I still have enough ingrained sexism etc to enjoy some jokes privately even when I recognize the discriminatory component. I also tend to think that what we see as a "thicker skin" is either internalized oppression, or a lack of exposure to discrimination (ie privilege). It's easier to laugh it off when you know that this won't lead to stereotypes about your group, for example straight white males.
I don't think the comparison applies because we generally agree that all languages are good and worth learning, and when we discuss them we refer to our experience, predict other people's experience, see where their preferences are etc. Again, patterns within patterns. It's recognized as subjective, and when there are any objective flaws in the reasoning we can point them out. Political discussions tend to be just as subjective but claim to be more objective. They inherently involve pointing out the superiority of one system over another. And everyone wants their opinion to be taken seriously, whereas in linguistic discussions native speakers have the authority. But anyway, the mods have made it pretty clear that the no cross, no crown rule isn't going away. Edited by Serpent on 13 August 2015 at 12:37am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| AlexTG Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 4636 days ago 178 posts - 354 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Latin, German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 174 of 178 13 August 2015 at 12:31am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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The problem I have with politics on a language forum is that such discussions are inevitably as simplistic and ill-informed as
discussions about language on political forums. Edited by AlexTG on 13 August 2015 at 12:32am 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5474 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 175 of 178 13 August 2015 at 12:38am | IP Logged | ||||||||
This thread I started was shut down The dark side of language dominance 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4519 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 176 of 178 13 August 2015 at 12:44am | IP Logged | ||||||||
They shouldn't have. I trust a proper corpus study more than the word of a random native speaker. Too many misconceptions about the own language. It's good to hear their perspective, but if we assume they give authoritative answers, we can stop discussing and open a Q&A section instead ;) 5 persons have voted this message useful |
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