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Manipulation thru lang: PC & translation | ||
Tags: Sexual Orientation | Gender | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5224 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 1 of 11 13 August 2015 at 5:25am | IP Logged | ||
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Couldn't do better with the title under the current length limit, sorry.
OK, many of you were practically asking (in the wrong place, derailing the 'fate' thread) for a controversial topic to be brought up so we could see if a constructive discussion is still possible before going off limits. Here we go (6 paragraph wall text ahead - you have been warned). However, if mods think it would be better to nip it at the bud, be my guests to delete this thread right away -- I don't mind at all :) ----8<---- No matter how well-meant political correctness (PC) might have been at the beginning, it is currently and consistently (yet not exclusively) used by groups with clear agendas to impose their one-sided vision of some issues upon the rest of the world -- doesn't this smell a lot like a version of the weak Sapir-Whorf hypothesis? A particular example: the term "gender violence" has been used in Spain for a few years now to sell the idea that only heterosexual men beat their couples, to the point that you hear "gender violence" in the news and you know a man has hit his girlfriend or wife, period. Yet women still beat up their couples too (who can be other women as well!), and so do gay men. The 'fun' (because of the absurdity) begins when these less frequent cases end up in the news anyway, and you see everyone twitch to avoid calling this by its name 'violence', because, well, "only men employ violence, and men only assault women" (I have heard this BS almost verbatim in the news). Sure, men assault women, but also other men, and women assault other people too -- all humans have the same potential for good and evil, and deep in our hearts we all feel the impulse to try and impose our will onto others through violence as soon as success seems guaranteed by physical power, lack or retaliation or sheltering of any kind. And you know what? Years ago, whenever people felt safe enough assaulting and abusing their couple, kids, elder parents, whatever victim who lived in the same household and could or dared not flee -- we used to have a term for that: domestic assault. But of course, using it would imply openly admitting that the assaulter might not be a man, or the victim might not be a woman -- Oh the horror! One could say that this is just a fad among journalists, that it won't last -- but it really creeps me out when I find the same trend in translation, a field that touches me much more closely. So, the other day I was watching a dubbed American crime show with my mother and we heard "gender violence" referring to one case. But the term didn't 'feel right', it didn't match the spirit of the show -- it's just not the overly preachy kind. As everything we watch at home is in dual so I can have a go at it in the original when I am alone, I stopped it right there, changed the audio track and played it again, and lo and behold! In the original, the police inspector (a woman) said... "domestic assault". Oh the horror! I routinely spot translation mistakes (semi-innocent stuff like mixing up "Army", "Navy", and "military") and "bad translations of the good kind" which keep errors that were in the original (material for an interesting thread on its own) -- but now I feel like I'll need to keep an extra eye open to see how much translation manipulates language to try and turn one thing into another. Is this the hidden censorship of the XXIst century? Your thoughts? Don't be shy to tell and explore examples of your own! 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 2 of 11 13 August 2015 at 10:06am | IP Logged | ||
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To me that's not political correctness, but just an euphemism. I totally prefer the directness of "violencia contra la mujer" (violence against women). This doesn't mean that other kinds of violence don't happen.
Technically violencia de género appears to imply any violence based on someone's gender.(let's not discuss whether people are wrong in thinking it happens because of the gender) In this case it doesn't imply that women or gay men don't beat up their partners, but that they don't do this because they consider it okay to humiliate them because of the gender. There's also benevolent sexism involved here, as women are still seen as fragile creatures that need to be protected by men. And of course there's a lot of good old sexism here, since male is the default gender so various "gender questions" are frequently about women. I think you're wrong if you blame women, feminism or political correctness for the male-centric presentation of this in the media. You've shown why this wording is actually not politically correct. As for translation, I don't think it's wrong to use the established terms that cause immediate associations. We/translators may be against a particular usage but idk if we really have the power to change it. Edited by Serpent on 13 August 2015 at 10:17am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Speakeasy Senior Member Canada Joined 4050 days ago 507 posts - 1098 votes Studies: German | Message 3 of 11 13 August 2015 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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@mrwarper,
Your post is filled with "oldspeak" and "thoughtcrime" and it runs counter to "goodthink". I have reported you to "thinkpol" and I call upon you to commence "crimestop" immediately"! 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 4 of 11 13 August 2015 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | ||
To clarify, by "here" I mean "related to this usage". I wasn't accusing mrwarper of sexism or anything. To me that's simply an example of how sexism hurts men too. Men are supposed to be strong etc, and admitting a case of domestic violence can be seen as weakness. Edited by Serpent on 13 August 2015 at 5:11pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7154 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 5 of 11 13 August 2015 at 5:24pm | IP Logged | ||
Don't forget about MiniLuv... 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Speakeasy Senior Member Canada Joined 4050 days ago 507 posts - 1098 votes Studies: German | Message 6 of 11 13 August 2015 at 6:52pm | IP Logged | ||
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@Chung,
I cannot thank you and the Party enough for having pointed out my error of omission. You have displayed exemplary Goodthink. Doubleplus good on you! In addition, I accuse myself having committed the error of denouncing mrwarper, whereas I should have persuaded him to turn himself in to Thinkpol. I must have succumbed to the Crimethink of the treacherous Goldstein. I am most assuredly guilty of the crime of Ownlife. I do not seek the forgiveness of the Party. I do not wish to be accorded the generosity of being re-educated. I am beyond recovery and I deserve to be vaporized, the sooner the better. Rather than going directly to Thinkpol and denouncing myself, which would incur the risk of contaminating others with my Thoughtcrime, I will patiently await the deliverance that they offer, at home, isolated from all others. Hopefully, mrwarper will do likewise. If not, please intervene. Edited by Speakeasy on 13 August 2015 at 6:55pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7154 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 7 of 11 13 August 2015 at 7:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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Chung = Charrington
2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5226 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 8 of 11 13 August 2015 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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I frankly don't understand the example, but it's not my native country, so that's not surprising. Do certain PC folk go too far? Yes, everyone agrees on that, and we can all pull out some fun examples: "herstory" "the sheeby jeebies" "Womanfred Womann's Earth Band." There was news a decade or so ago, when a black man objected somewhere in the United States to the term "black hole." We all laughed at that.
Haha. But there are plenty of instances where it seems to me that normal language is insulting to certain peoples, and they have a right to complain. To that end, I include a link to one of my favorite essays, by Douglas Hofstadter. http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html So while we can all dismiss the loons happily, we should not become reactionary and ignore the very real and reasonable complaints certain groups have. Edited by ScottScheule on 13 August 2015 at 11:03pm 5 persons have voted this message useful |
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