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Michel Thomas Method Arabic | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| JamesBates Bilingual Triglot Newbie Pakistan Joined 6193 days ago 27 posts - 28 votes Speaks: English*, Hindi*, Arabic (Written) Studies: Persian, German | Message 1 of 19 02 May 2008 at 7:30am | IP Logged | ||
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I was listening to Michel Thomas Method Arabic. The native Arabic speaker justifies teaching the Egyptian dialect by saying that it is the most widely understood dialect of Arabic. My question is: if the objective is to make oneself understood, then wouldn't MSA be even more appropriate? MSA is understood by Arabs throughout the Arab world, as it is the only type of Arabic used for education.
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| Hashimi Senior Member Oman Joined 6262 days ago 362 posts - 529 votes  Speaks: Arabic (Written)* Studies: English, Japanese | Message 2 of 19 02 May 2008 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yes. MSA is understood by most of the population of the Arab world (except some Kurds in north of Iraq and some Berber in North Africa). But MSA is not used for everyday situations. You hear it in the radio and in the university (or school) and you see it in TV and newspapers, but you don't hear it in the streets or when people talk with their friends. It is more appropriate to ask a seller ده بكام؟ [dah bkam?] than to ask him بكم هذا؟ [bikam hatha?] because the later is more formal and it looks strange for a native speaker to use it in that situation. I think Michel Thomas is for travelers and tourists who want to deal with local people. If you learn Arabic for academic purposes or to understand the Arabic media and press, it is better to learn MSA. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| zorglub Pentaglot Senior Member France Joined 7003 days ago 441 posts - 504 votes 1 sounds Speaks: French*, English, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: German, Arabic (Written), Turkish, Mandarin | Message 3 of 19 02 May 2008 at 7:07pm | IP Logged | ||
I think the michel Thomas method is so brilliant for starting a new language (close to the end of mandarin level 2, and then i'll do Arabic level 2) that it would be a pity to not use it. Egyptian or any other Arabic dialect (except west of Tunisia is very close to MSA / classic Arabic. lebanese and egyprtians have a different dialect but still understand each other with minimal effort. Once you'll have opened your mind to Arabic with the MT method, and are actually able to speak some arabic you'll have the ability to adapt to any other arabic you'll be working on. I started with Eastern arabic of Pimsleur, levels 1 and 2, and still the diffrences with Egyptian sound minimal to me. It is true that most Arab speakers understand Egyptian because of the influence of egyptian Tv series and films. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Deniz Bilingual Heptaglot Groupie Czech RepublicRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6822 days ago 94 posts - 97 votes Speaks: Czech*, Slovak*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, FrenchB2 Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Portuguese, Indonesian, Persian | Message 4 of 19 11 May 2008 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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I also liked the Pimsleur Eatern Arabic a lot, but then (and I am afraid it will be the same story with MT) I realized, that even after the third part I will be only able to toss around some phrases with decent pronunciation and understand only the same easy phrases said to me. This is enough if one wants to use the language for a holiday trip to Jordania or in your case to Egypt, but if you want to study Arabic more in-depth, then I would go for MSA..There are really good courses and with a lot of hard work and maybe some aid of an instructor, you can reach very advanced level in MSA and then start to build your dialects, which will be much easier then. I am in no case an expert, but this is the way I took, so it could save you some time.
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| zorglub Pentaglot Senior Member France Joined 7003 days ago 441 posts - 504 votes 1 sounds Speaks: French*, English, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: German, Arabic (Written), Turkish, Mandarin | Message 5 of 19 11 May 2008 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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I feel this is not the case.
I learnt some arabic with Pimsleur and Michel Thomas so it was Syrian then Egyptian. I meet many arab speaking people at work, from the Gulf (and res sea , Egypt, lebanon, Syria, Lybia, tunisia, Morocco and algeria, plus Mauritania Ethiopia. of course i do not speak much, but the litle I speak is mainly Syrian sometimes an Egyptian colour comes in, Bu it is always understood (I speak french with Tunisians amgerians, and moroccans, but Tunisians understand my arabic and edcated algerian/moroccans also since they learnt classic Arabic) Even th arabs from the Gulf countries understand my scarse arabic. I think learning a dialect is learning a real language whereas MSA is not one, and i'm not certain that my understanding (low now) wll be better if i learnt MSA (nobody speaks it outside TV and radio professionals I suppose. The similarities are such between the dialects east of Lybia that I don't think MSA would be a better choice than Egyptian or Lebanese, or Saoudi arabic. In short: MSA ? I don't think you'll ever personaly meet persons who speak MSA to you. I think it's better to know one dialect well , such as Syrian/lebanese/Jordanian/palestinian arabic or Egyptian. This is understood by most Arab speakers and is a real spoken language. Just a thought however, i'm not an expert. In North africa, it may be difficult to deal with Algerians and Moroccans with Lebano-syrian Arabic unless talking to educated people. But as those speak french or English....
Edited by zorglub on 11 May 2008 at 6:56pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Deniz Bilingual Heptaglot Groupie Czech RepublicRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6822 days ago 94 posts - 97 votes Speaks: Czech*, Slovak*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, FrenchB2 Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Portuguese, Indonesian, Persian | Message 6 of 19 11 May 2008 at 8:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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Zorglub,
I totally understand your point and you may be right, that it would be better to learn dialect first, because real people speak it on the streets. On the other hand the problem of this aproach is that there are no materials that would help you to reach really advanced level in any of the dialects, so with this aproach, you will be still somewhere near the basic level. What I stated was, that if somebody wants to reach advanced level in Arabic, I would recommend MSA as there are sufficient materials. I must disagree with your opinion, that nobody speaks fusha-actually my Arabic teacher spoke it fluently and this would be the case for the majority of educated Arabs. Plus as you said as well you can listen to radio broadcasts and tv,that are in MSA,and that is a huge advantage, as one can watch eg. tv in MSA everyday, while it may be a bit difficult to get materials in dialects. Edited by Deniz on 11 May 2008 at 8:20pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| zorglub Pentaglot Senior Member France Joined 7003 days ago 441 posts - 504 votes 1 sounds Speaks: French*, English, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: German, Arabic (Written), Turkish, Mandarin | Message 7 of 19 12 May 2008 at 3:04am | IP Logged | ||
yes , anyhow, If i'm to proceed to more advanced Arabic, I'll only have MSA material to do it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| JamesBates Bilingual Triglot Newbie Pakistan Joined 6193 days ago 27 posts - 28 votes Speaks: English*, Hindi*, Arabic (Written) Studies: Persian, German | Message 8 of 19 29 May 2008 at 7:14am | IP Logged | ||
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Before you delve into Arabic, know that there is only one form of Arabic that is uniform throughout the Arab world: Modern Standard Arabic. It is also the only kind of Arabic that is usually written. The dialects, on the other hand, are rarely written outside of comic strips and vary from city to city. Unless you plan on eavesdropping on your Arab hosts or communicating with uneducated Arabs, you will not need to be able to understand any city's dialect, as Arabs will reciprocate when you speak to them in MSA. However, if you plan on working with uneducated Arabs you will need to be able to understand their dialect, as they may not be able to reply to you in MSA. You should also know that you will never need to be able to speak a dialect, as MSA is understood throughout the Arab world.
To sum it up, learn only MSA. If you plan on travelling to the Arab world and know your exact destination and plan on speaking to less educated Arabs, then it would certainly be a good idea to be able to understand that city's dialect, but you need never waste time learning to speak it. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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