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10,000 Japanese Sentences | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Roichan Diglot Newbie Norway Joined 5926 days ago 10 posts - 11 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Norwegian | Message 9 of 26 15 July 2008 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
i don't know if i'd say book 3 is "really essential". there are characters in there that i already knew and used though, which is part of the reason i decided to just do the whole book- that and the fact that flipping thru it it looked easy. by way of example, the characters 誰（だれ-who) and 俺（おれー I[masculine, casual]), i already knew and used because i saw them all the time. also a lot of kanji used in names aren't covered in book one. i think you could certainly get by without going past book 3, but there are also kanji i've seen used on an almost daily basis in text messages, emails, advertising, names, class, etc. that are only in book 3. one other thing though, not to split hairs but those are by no means the "last" 1000. i've since added new kanji i've come across to my anki deck for review and written them down in the back of the book. after book one, you can look at most stuff and figure things out. after book three, you can feel pretty confident that you'll rarely come across kanji that you haven't learned. but there'll always be knew kanji to learn- once again, some surprisingly common ones like the last kanji in pepper（椒）and some other kanji for people's names and whatnot. i guess, my advise would be, do book one, start doing sentences, reading, etc. and then when you feel like you really need more kanji, go do book 3. as for where i live, i live down in the south in a prefecture called kumamoto :-) edit: one interesting tidbit- japanese people don't really know which kanji are standard kanji and which ones aren't. they just use kanji that they think other people can read. and one more bit of encouragement- after finishing book 1, you're kanji will probably be better than a lot of japanese people's. i corrected my tutor twice, haha. (only when she was like, "i don't know if this is right" and of course i did it humbly and gently, but it still felt great). Edited by Roichan on 15 July 2008 at 5:39pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Rekunoto Senior Member United States Joined 6118 days ago 104 posts - 105 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Mandarin | Message 10 of 26 16 July 2008 at 2:53am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks for all of the advice/info. It is good to have a mentor who has walked the road I am walking (sorry for the dramatic metaphor lol)
Here is my log for today . Kanji: 50 Sentences: 0 Hours of Input: 1 As you can tell, my hours of input it WAY less than the 8 I planned on. I learned today not to set big, huge goals that you know you won't be able to reach. These two articles give some info about getting a lot done without making goals that are hard to live up to. Learn Japanese in 1 second Calm down, and hurry up Anyways, by making Japanese a chore, it becomes hard to do. My goal for tommorow is to get 1 second of Japanese input, and take it from there. So I am not going to set daily quota on sentences (once I get there...) and input, although I will keep my daily kanji goal (seeing how I only have 4 days left). Anyways, I am on figure 1810 on kanji! I have found that it is best to do my reviews in the morning and additions at night. I have gotten a bit lazy these past couple days because I am so close to the end (I review and add kanji to my SRS, but not until the wee hours). I thought "Hey, I am so close to the end, that I can just cruise to the finish line." My mindset changed a lot when I saw that another member of this site had quit at figure 1900, because he lost motivation. Now he has completely restarted Heisig. I am deciding to learn from his mistakes. So I am going to be tougher on my reviews/additions, making sure I don't slack off these last couple of days. Anyways, I can already see the benefit of doing Heisig. I can look through a Wikipedia article and recognize %90 of kanji easily (Although sometimes I have to look up the meaning on "Reviewing the Kanji"). If you are still in the "I'm not sure if I should do Heisig" phase, just go for it. It DOES pay off. Anyways, good luck on your language studies everyone! God Bless 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Thuan Triglot Senior Member GermanyRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6873 days ago 133 posts - 156 votes Speaks: Vietnamese, German*, English Studies: French, Japanese, Romanian, Swedish, Mandarin | Message 11 of 26 16 July 2008 at 3:11am | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm one of the guys that quit at 1900. Actually twice. I got to around 1800 the first time and quit. Half a year later I restarted and got to 1900. Kinda annoying to quit at that time. It took me another six months to get the motivation to finish that book. And the payoff is immense. I often sit down and grab a book in Japanese before I go to bed. And I can get the gist of a lot of texts. Or read several pages of dialogue heave novels without a dictionary.
I did a few kanjis from RTK3, but I'll eventually finish that one. If only for all the kanjis used in names (most of the RTK3 kanjis I've encountered so far, were in names). 頑張って！ 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Roichan Diglot Newbie Norway Joined 5926 days ago 10 posts - 11 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Norwegian | Message 12 of 26 16 July 2008 at 3:26am | IP Logged | |||||
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here's some stuff to help you get input...
the 100 greatest japanese rock albums according to the japanese rolling stone... http://neojaponisme.com/2007/11/09/100-greatest-japanese-roc k-albums/ the wikipedia article on the japanese academy awards with a list of winners thru the years... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Academy_Awards a searchable database of japanese song lyrics... http://music.goo.ne.jp/lyric/index.html the top 50 japanese dramas as decided by voters... http://www.jdorama.com/topdramas.htm and if you're gonna be reading websites in japanese, why not know how to pronounce those characters. go to this link, type in the url to the site you want and it provides hiragana for all the kanji on the page... http://www.hiragana.jp/ or alternatively you can just download this program which allows you to hover your mouse over a word in kanji and the hiragana pops up (you have to be using a firefox internet browser though... http://www.polarcloud.com/rikaichan (i'm heavily indebted to ajatt and the readers there for those links.) Edited by Roichan on 16 July 2008 at 9:15am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tryllid Groupie United States Joined 5996 days ago 58 posts - 60 votes Studies: Japanese | Message 13 of 26 16 July 2008 at 8:54am | IP Logged | |||||
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Hi
Quick question: can someone tell me whether it's worth finish RTK1 Before starting RTK2? I'm impatient to learn how to read and I don't know if I'll mess up my learning if I start early. I'm at 930. If it will be a problem - does anyone have any suggestions on what I can read in the meantime that is interesting, but does not depend on me knowing all 3000 kanji? Thanks Tryllid 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Roichan Diglot Newbie Norway Joined 5926 days ago 10 posts - 11 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Norwegian | Message 14 of 26 16 July 2008 at 9:11am | IP Logged | |||||
learning kanji with heisig and being exposed to kanji in "real japanese" at the same time has its benefits and its detriments, so to speak. the main benefit being that the more you see the kanji the more the image of it as a whole is being burned upon your mind's eye (if this makes sense) and also the story/image you've learned in rtk is being activated. however, since some of the kanji in heisig are assigned keywords which, were they actually translated into japanese would use other kanji, there can be some confusion. i've experienced both these phenomena personally. all in all, i'd say that eventually you will have to face the reality that there will be some confusion regarding the heisig keywords and they way the kanji are used in real life. this should by no means discourage you. heisig is, a HUGE help, don't get me wrong. all that being said, the biggest concern is will you be neglecting your kanji studies and reviews in order to read real japanese? reading real japanese is of course the ultimate goal, but the kanji are such a monolithic structure- so arbitrarily connected to the spoken language, in some respects- that it's best, in my opinion, to take down the writing with your full focus and effort before you move on to the readings. if however you're reading of japanese will instead infringe upon some other activity and your kanji studies won't suffer, then by all means go ahead. i know you want to be able to read japanese soon. i do too. i'm about half way there but it's taking me forever. i'm just so happy i finished the heisig books though. don't get sidetracked by getting ahead of yourself! if nothing else, try it out and see how you fare. Edited by Roichan on 16 July 2008 at 9:12am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Rekunoto Senior Member United States Joined 6118 days ago 104 posts - 105 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Mandarin | Message 15 of 26 16 July 2008 at 1:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
Thanks (Especially for the Firefox extension and the 50 top dramas list)! I used to pick up random dramas, and I would quickly get bored. Having a list to go by will help my input a ton.
Although RTK1 can be really fun and enjoyable, it is a TON of work to actually complete the book. Don't get me wrong, it still takes a lot less energy than rote memorization does, but I would have to advise against doing book 1&2 at the same time. Wait until you finish RTK1, then learn the readings (Many people don't even use RTK2 for readings, they just learn through Furigana and other input). Anyways, I am not your dad, so I don't expect you do to every thing I say. If you still want to do it, go ahead. Anyways, I know some people out there are wondering "How long does RTK1 take to complete?" The following should give you a rough estimate. At 5 kanji a day: around a 13 months At 10 kanji a day: around 7 months At 25 kanji a day: around 3 months At 50 kanji a day: around a month and a half At 100 kanji a day: 21 days 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Rekunoto Senior Member United States Joined 6118 days ago 104 posts - 105 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Mandarin | Message 16 of 26 17 July 2008 at 1:09am | IP Logged | |||||
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Heisig definitely saves the most complicated characters for last (in my humble opinion). I managed to go through 50 more kanji today. Before I get into detail, I will give my log.
Kanji: 50 Sentences: 0 Hours of Input: 5 As you can tell, I managed to get my hours of input up today. I am still not "full time" on the input (6-10 hours), but like I said, I doubt I will get that much input until I start sentences. Anyways, back to kanji. I am at frame 1910 now! After hearing Thuan's story though, I know that I can't start slowing down. Tomorrow I will do 50 kanji, and the day after tomorrow (Friday), I will do the last 102! I know some people may think I am being a bit melodramatic about finishing Heisig, but I have my reasons. I started Heisig last November, got to around frame 250 then I quit. I restarted from the beginning, got to around 500, and quit again. Now I have stuck with it, and only have 150 left to! I don't even know my motives for doing Heisig anymore. I started with the sole intention of using Heisig to improve my Japanese, but now I am doing it just to prove that I can finish this book once and for all (although I will still have the linguistic benefit...)! Anyways, as I said in an earlier post, I am going on vacation from July 25th to August 1st. I am not going to start on sentences until August 1st, because I won't be able to review them on an SRS during the vacation(there is no computers/internet). However, I am going to print off 700 (randomly selected) kanji and their keywords to take with me to review in Florida. So, it is really hard to word this, so I will just graph it out (maybe I overuse graphs? lol) July 18th: Finish Heisig July 19th-24th: Review kanji at rate of 200 a day ( I may lower this...) July 25th- August 1st: Review kanji at rate of 100 per day August 2nd-3rd: Review the 500 kanji the will be waiting for me in my SRS August 4th: Start sentences! As you can see, I will be doing a ton of kanji reviewing over the next couple of weeks. This is good, because it will get some of the kanji that didn't fully "stick" to stay put. Finally, on August 4th I will start learning (not memorizing) Japanese sentences. Basic fluency here I come. If you have any questions, comments, or feedback please post a reply. :) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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