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Gender Congruency in Romance Languages | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7159 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes  20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 9 of 22 21 March 2010 at 7:12pm | IP Logged | ||
Here are some more exceptions which work against the idea that modern intra-Romance cognates should have the same gender. milk: lait (m) (French); latte (m) (Italian); leche (f) (Spanish) air: air (m) (French); aira (f) (Italian); aire (m) (Spanish) fruit: fruit (m) (French); frutto (m) / frutta (f) (Italian); fruta (f) (Spanish) smoke: fumée (f) (French); fumo (m) (Italian); humo (m) (Spanish) sea: mer (f) (French); mare (m) (Italian); mar (m) (Spanish - but I've been told that it can be feminine in literature or certain expressions) salt: sel (m) (French); sale (m) (Italian); sal (f) (Spanish) 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5456 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 10 of 22 21 March 2010 at 9:06pm | IP Logged | ||
Fruto (m) also exists in Spanish. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Gamauyun Diglot Newbie United States Joined 5651 days ago 26 posts - 36 votes Speaks: English*, Russian Studies: Romanian, German | Message 11 of 22 22 March 2010 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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When the neuter gender was lost in the Romance languages, were words that were formerly neuter in Latin shifted to one particular gender, or was it more random? I have almost no knowledge of the Romance languages, aside from their influence on English, so I apologize if this is a stupid question.
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| Felidae Diglot Newbie BrazilRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5410 days ago 28 posts - 34 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English Studies: French | Message 12 of 22 22 March 2010 at 10:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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They shifted to masculine
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| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7159 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 13 of 22 22 March 2010 at 10:14pm | IP Logged | ||
The reinterpretation of Latin gender in the modern Romance languages doesn't seem to follow a recognizable pattern. Compare the terms for "milk" and "sea" to see how neuter Latin words are represented in French, Italian, and Spanish. milk: lait (m) (French); latte (m) (Italian); leche (f) (Spanish) cf. LAC (n) (Latin) air: air (m) (French); aira (f) (Italian); aire (m) (Spanish) cf. AER (m) (Latin) fruit: fruit (m) (French); frutto (m) / frutta (f) (Italian); fruto (m) / fruta (f) (Spanish) cf. FRUCTUS (m), FRUX (f) (Latin) smoke: fumée (f) (French); fumo (m) (Italian); humo (m) (Spanish) cf. FUMUS (m) (Latin) sea: mer (f) (French); mare (m) (Italian); mar (m) (Spanish - but I've been told that it can be feminine in literature or certain expressions) cf. MARE (n) (Latin) salt: sel (m) (French); sale (m) (Italian); sal (f) (Spanish) cf. SAL (m) (Latin) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| MäcØSŸ Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5812 days ago 259 posts - 392 votes Speaks: Italian*, EnglishC2 Studies: German | Message 14 of 22 22 March 2010 at 10:24pm | IP Logged | ||
Actually in Italian and Romanian some words (many in the latter) retain the “neuter gender”, but they’re actually words with masculine singular and feminine plural. E.g. L’uovo ----> Le uova L’osso----> Le ossa Oul---->Ouăle Osul---->Oasele Edited by MäcØSŸ on 22 March 2010 at 10:24pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6014 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 15 of 22 22 March 2010 at 10:33pm | IP Logged | ||
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(One minor observation -- "fumée" is a special case, as it has been rederived from the verb -- it's taken from the past participle, which isn't a common source of nouns in any language.)
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| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5456 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 16 of 22 22 March 2010 at 11:00pm | IP Logged | ||
I don't think it is that uncommon. Past participles can be used as adjectives, and adjectives in turn as nouns. I suspect the Latin fructus to come from a past participle as well. Edited by tractor on 22 March 2010 at 11:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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