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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Katie Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 6718 days ago 495 posts - 599 votes  Speaks: English*, Hungarian Studies: French, German | Message 17 of 27 06 September 2009 at 10:03am | IP Logged | ||
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As for the discussion regarding cochlear implants etc .... wow, I think it will always be debateable. In fact, I was watching a video on YouTube about cochlear implants just yesterday!
On a personal note, at this stage I would say that I would probably want my child to have the surgery, IF it was going to be of no risk to him/her healthwise, etc (I have no knowledge of the risks associated with such surgery). It would be in no way an attempt to pretend that he/she was not hearing impaired. I would still want to teach them sign language, I would be more than happy to make it the mother-tongue in our family - but I just personally believe that there would be more opportunities, more experiences and more things readily available to my child if they could hear. HOWEVER, I would not judge a person who chose not to take that path. As I said, it's just a personal choice. I do not believe that, by having the surgery, I would be doing anything other than allowing my child to further experience their world. On the same note, I don't believe that in today's world, a deaf child would have an 'awful' experience of the world either. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| yar Diglot Newbie United States bytetrash.blogspot.c Joined 5587 days ago 23 posts - 24 votes Speaks: English*, Portuguese Studies: Korean | Message 18 of 27 07 September 2009 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | ||
Not quite. Like other's have pointed out, sign languages can have vastly different grammars from the languages they represent, such as with American English versus American Sign language. The same is probably true with International Sign Language. Even if it has similar grammar with English (I have no idea), a Japanese speaker would have difficulty because its grammar is nothing like English. Also, it is possible to have "bad pronunciation" or an accent, in sign language. Beyond hand movements, a lot of body language and facial expressions are used, such that, as an example, if you forget to raise or eyebrows when asking a question, you may not be understood. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Marie Diglot Newbie France Joined 6176 days ago 30 posts - 35 votes Speaks: French*, English | Message 19 of 27 06 October 2009 at 4:49pm | IP Logged | ||
Prevent them from acctually hearing the world? Well, I've had the opportunity to discuss about it with a person who went deaf and had one. That was very intersting since she used to hear and so was able to compare. My question was : what does it sound like? what do you hear? She told me it's very different from what we normaly hear. It's kind of metalic sounds. And, for example, a door, a voice, steps... everything sounded the same at first. And she had to learn to feel the rythm for a voice and so on, to actually identify the sounds. And sure, it takes time.... So the idea that an implant (or - well I don't know the word... - external prothesis) makes one hear like an "operationnal ear", gives you back your ears is not true - unfortunatly. It's not just like reading a text written in 3-Arial and you just have to make it 10-Arial. Make a text (with distorted letters, and missing letters maybe too) bigger : still it won't be that easy to read. In France, earing parents of deaf child often have to make a choice very early (prothesis/ implant/ oral language and/or sign language...), and unfortunately mostly without a complete information. (I've heard sad stories about it from deaf people and from hearing parents...) In fact, though vocabulary is specific, structures are very similar, and there are different levels of language (I'd say you can be more or less "visual" - the most visual: mime). That's why after 3 days in another country, a deaf can have a conversation about almost anything with another one. I think that's great! ^_^ Edited by Marie on 06 October 2009 at 7:43pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Marie Diglot Newbie France Joined 6176 days ago 30 posts - 35 votes Speaks: French*, English | Message 20 of 27 07 October 2009 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | ||
Why not more people? Maybe because many people don't regard it as an actual language: you have to spell each word / it's just a sign for a word (without grammar of its own)/ it's for disabled people / people would stare at you because you'd look ridiculous gesturing like that, making such faces... / there is no writting system (with the idea: no writting system => not a language)/ ... 1.And it's not that easy to learn as it has been written earlier. 2.No pronounciation, but hand shapes and moves very precise. The grammar : synthaxe specific to a visual approach of the speech No tones but muscule tones, face expressions, looks, space... 3.Some think that there was first sign languages (as a hunter, being silent could be kind of helpful), then oral languages that turns out to overtake. And yet, why not more people? Besides the benefits, curiosity could motivate you: because it has been forbiden quite a while, it's still a young language evolving a lot. It's also a different kind of speech: 3D instead of sequencial, etc... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| datsunking1 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5585 days ago 1014 posts - 1533 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Russian, Dutch, French | Message 21 of 27 07 October 2009 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think I should learn it to basic fluency, enough to show kindness and greetings and everything. I attend church where there are a couple deaf people that sit in the front. The way they communicate so quickly amazes me.
Honestly, I didn't know it WASN'T universal, I really thought it was. What is the best type to learn that will be understood by most people? I would love to get to know people that have to communicate by signing. I would love to help people with needs, like a special school. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| katilica Bilingual Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5471 days ago 70 posts - 109 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish* Studies: French, Catalan | Message 22 of 27 20 January 2010 at 8:00am | IP Logged | ||
A little too late to be commenting on this post but i really feel i have to. Datsunking, sign language is by no means universal. ASL (American Sign Language) is what is used in the USA and English speaking Canada. There are other forms of communication as well; a popular one being SEE(signed exact English) which follows English word order, and pidgin sign which is a mix of ASL and English. SEE is used to teach Deaf children English grammar and word order. A lot of people who claim they are signing ASL are actually utilizing SEE or some of other method of communication. These are methods and not an actual language since they have not developed naturally and were thought out and 'built'. Another misconception is that ASL is easy. It is not easy and is not English on the hands! It has a very complex grammar which includes facial expressions and certain body movements that must be done in order to accurately convey the meaning. Also, the language is very contextual and English words are given to a sign but you must be careful when using them. For example the sign RUN means to run as in execise but you will see people using this sign incorrectly when they sign 'he is running for office' a good sign for this would be COMPETE not RUN. ASL is completely different from BSL (British Sign Language) and ASL actually comes from FSL(French sign Language). Learning a visual language is a lot different than learning other languages since most people's receptive skills aren't as great as they think they are. If you want to learn a bit i suggest you look at http://lifeprint.com which is an excellent free site that teaches real ASL. Another site related to the former is http://aslpah.com which is a journal that answers many qquestions about Deaf culture. Notice the capital D on Deaf. Just because someone is deaf does not mean they are Deaf. To be Deaf means to be involved in the Deaf community and use ASL as your language. On Youtube i suggest you check out Allyballybabe she has great ASL interpretations of songs since most other people on youtube are students who do crappy renditions and use SEE; she is one of the few hearing people oon there who knows ASL well. For dictionaries the best (for me) is http://www.signingsavvy.com 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| mindonhiatus Newbie United States Joined 5355 days ago 2 posts - 2 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish, French | Message 23 of 27 28 March 2010 at 5:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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Sign language is NOT an easy language for everyone, it's a visual/spacial language and I personally have seen MANY people struggle to no end with it... "technically" it's easy, but every language has it's challanges- I am fluent in asl and can tell you that when it comes down to more difficult signing (poetry for example, describing locations and features, medical or any technical descriptions, and names- being as you have to know how to SPELL them) it can be hard for some people to grasp.
The culture is another thing that shy people have a hard time with, deaf people can be very very blunt, to the point where hearing people get offended or embarrassed, just ask a deaf person to describe a sexual act and you will know what I'm talking about. I've found that more creative, outgoing people tend to pick up the language easier. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| mindonhiatus Newbie United States Joined 5355 days ago 2 posts - 2 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish, French | Message 24 of 27 28 March 2010 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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I HATE when people say sign language is for the disabled, I know more deaf doctors, professors, clinitians, interpreters (yes... INTERPRETERS, they are called CDI's, or certified deaf interpretors, and they are used in high-profile interpreting situations where one must be very precise, i.e. surgaries and legal cases) that are deaf than are hearing. Losing ones ability to hear does not make them an invalid.
ASL is the third most widely used language in the US, and it IS in fact a language, one dictionary definition of "language" is: "communication of meaning in any way; medium that is expressive, significant, etc." It's easy? Can you sign fluently? Ask a certified interpreter of ASL why it's one of the HARDEST interpreting certificates to get. Watch some poetry in sign and tell me if you could mimick the deep metaphisical concepts convayed through motion and expressions only. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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