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Bosnian/Croatian/Montenegrin/Serbian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Delodephius Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Yugoslavia Joined 5402 days ago 342 posts - 501 votes  Speaks: Slovak*, Serbo-Croatian*, EnglishC1, Czech Studies: Russian, Japanese | Message 17 of 43 14 February 2010 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Is it called Bosnian in those documents? I'm not asking whether those documents are about it but how do they call it. Most documents I'm aware of from the Medieval and Early Modern periods usually use terms Serbian, Croatian, Slavonic or Illyrian when referring to any Slavic language of the West Balkan regions at that time. Edited by Delodephius on 15 February 2010 at 12:52am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Fazla Hexaglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6261 days ago 166 posts - 255 votes Speaks: Italian, Serbo-Croatian*, English, Russian, Portuguese, French Studies: Arabic (classical), German, Turkish, Mandarin | Message 18 of 43 15 February 2010 at 10:44am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Well in that sense no we have documents that attest there IS a language called Bosnian "just" from the 14th century where it is mentioned among other language by the writer Konstantin Filosof in his work "history of written languages". so I think 7 centuries are well enough.
And my 2 cents on the topic are: it's easy for everyone to say it should be called this or that but than tell us what is this name that we should use? Serbo-Croatian or Croato-Serbian not for sure, I don't see why should I call the language like that when even Croats and Serbs refuse to call it with that name. People sometimes think they have a point when they say "it was called Serbo-Croatian before" but they don't know that that name was coined in the 19th century more out of political reasons (and having the representatives of Croats and Serbs only in the time of the agreement only) and if we really are looking into history, than other names for the language have been used for a way longer time that Serbo-Croatian or Croato-Serbian. Personally, I don't have anything at all against a neutral name, but than it must be really neutral. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 19 of 43 15 February 2010 at 12:46pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Regardless of how the local populations call the languages or dialects they are so close that it shouldn't be necessary to learn more than one of them. I have chosen to say that I dabble in Serbian for one simple reason: the Cyrillic alphabet. But to my dismay I find that there are more sources on the internet with Roman letters than there are with Cyrillic letters. I don't know about books, - I visited a bookstore last fall and saw a lot of books written in both alphabets, but I can't know whether some of those with Roman letters are in Croatian, or even whether a few of those with Cyrillic letters are in Makedonian.
I have studied the guide to the Beozoo from A to Ш (and copyed much of it by hand), but most of my study materials are printouts from the internet. I can look up most of the words in a small two-way dictionary I bought on the street in Beograd, but Croatian is so close that I can check any missing words in a much larger Croatian-English dictionary, which I have bought here in Århus. The alphabets are totally parallel, and the 'false friends' are typically those words that I can find in my small Serbian dictionary. And so far my 'internal' pronunciation is so dismal that you probably couldn't tell which of the languages/dialects I'm trying to learn. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Saif Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5611 days ago 122 posts - 208 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (Levantine)*, French | Message 20 of 43 15 February 2010 at 5:08pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Agreed. I wish Bosnian was on the list. If it's an official language in 3 countries, why isn't it considered a language here? I understand the mutually intelligibility of these languages, but members here have good judgment and can pick the one language they identify with. Edited by Saif on 15 February 2010 at 5:09pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Aineko Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 5447 days ago 238 posts - 442 votes Speaks: Serbian*, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin | Message 21 of 43 16 February 2010 at 4:08am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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my guess is that Bosnian is not on the list for the same reason you can still find 'Serbia and Montenegro" as a country choice in many websites registration pages - simply, out of date software...
as for the one name for these languages (language) - I'd be happy with that, just make it short :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Fazla Hexaglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6261 days ago 166 posts - 255 votes Speaks: Italian, Serbo-Croatian*, English, Russian, Portuguese, French Studies: Arabic (classical), German, Turkish, Mandarin | Message 22 of 43 16 February 2010 at 11:25am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Unfortunately it has nothing to do with that, I remember there was a thread about Uyghur language when there were those happenings in Xingyang last year, people where saying why don't you have Uyghur and bla bla so Uyghur was added on the list. There are languages like Arabic (Hassaniyya) which I've seen only on this forum so my guess is that this forum has it's own list of languages.
I'd personally go with Južnoslavenski, Southern slavic in English. Ok I know it's not too short but it's as politically correct as it can be :D 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| minus273 Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5764 days ago 288 posts - 346 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French Studies: Ancient Greek, Tibetan | Message 23 of 43 16 February 2010 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Except that the Bulgarian-Macedonian dialect continuum is every bit as South Slavic as the Former Yugoslav Language of Serbo-Croat (FYLSC). We could then call it Central Caseful South Slavic, if Slovenians and Kajkavians are happy to be called "peripheric". Edited by minus273 on 16 February 2010 at 12:09pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7155 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 24 of 43 16 February 2010 at 9:41pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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How about "New Shtokavian" as a neutral name? The biggest difference between "Old" and "New" is that sub-dialects of Old Shtokavian allow for stress to fall on any syllable. Sub-dialects of New Shtokavian allow for stress to fall on any syllable EXCEPT the last one.
Serbo-Croatian's phonology and almost all of its morphology were standardized on a New Shtokavian sub-dialect. I think that the term "New Shtokvian" also avoids the problem of calling it "Shtokavian" since Bulgarian and Macedonian are ultimately Shtokavian as well. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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