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"It" in Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5452 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 17 of 24 04 March 2010 at 3:20pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Éste, ésta and esto are demonstrative pronouns. Este and esta are also adjectives (then always without written accent), esto is not. Me gusta este coche. Me gusta éste. Me gusta esta casa. Me gusta ésta. Me gusta esto. Esto can never refer back to a noun. Ello, esto, eso, aquello will always be used for something abstract. Related adjectives will be in the masculine singular, because that is the unmarked form. These pronouns can be classified as either masculine or neuter. It is a choice of terminology, nothing else.
All Western Romance nouns are either masculine or feminine, true enough. However, in expressions like "Hace sol" or "Llueve" the subject is not a noun (nor a pronoun) that can be identified, thus they are "impersonal expressions". Both you and I are perfectly aware of the distinction between physical sex and grammatical gender. I referred to grammatical gender when I said "true gender". I think we actually agree. As I said above, it's a question of terminology. Edited by tractor on 04 March 2010 at 3:32pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Javi Senior Member Spain Joined 5980 days ago 419 posts - 548 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 18 of 24 04 March 2010 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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As far as know, there are indeed neuter forms in Spanish. You have the article 'lo' (Alucino con lo guapa que es), the proum 'ello' (no por ello te tienes que ir), where ello refers to a complex piece of speech that has no gender, and finally the demonstratives: esto, eso, aquello (eso de levantarse tan temprano a mí no me va). In this last case, though, if there's an adjacent adjective, it must be in masculine form: Eso pequeño de ahí no me gusta. The demonstrative is still neuter anyway. Edited by Javi on 04 March 2010 at 5:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5380 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 19 of 24 04 March 2010 at 4:19pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
How is that possible? It must agree in gender and therefore must be masculine. I don't know Spanish well enough, but are we talking here about strong accented pronouns (the right term eludes me now), just like the French "moi" in "Moi, j'y vais", or "Lui, je l'invite"? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5452 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 20 of 24 04 March 2010 at 5:19pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
It is possible because language and grammar are not perfect, logical systems. Nouns in Classical Latin could have three genders: masculine, feminine and neuter. In Spanish the neuter has vanished from the noun system. However, a few neuter pronouns remain: the third-person pronoun ello (and it's object form lo), the demonstrative pronouns esto, eso, aquello and the "neuter article" lo. (Lo is also a masculine object pronoun.)
No. Edited by tractor on 04 March 2010 at 5:19pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| datsunking1 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5584 days ago 1014 posts - 1533 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Russian, Dutch, French | Message 21 of 24 04 March 2010 at 5:47pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
But there are neuter pronouns like "ello" :D I think. I mean that's what it says in my grammar book, and that's what I have been told. Edited by datsunking1 on 04 March 2010 at 5:50pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Ajijic10 Diglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 6914 days ago 161 posts - 210 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish | Message 22 of 24 04 March 2010 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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There are three types of demonstrative pronouns in Spanish: Masculine, Feminine and Neuter.
Anyone who claims differently shouldn't be trying to teach Spanish on a web-board. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6010 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 23 of 24 05 March 2010 at 11:27am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I don't see many people teaching, but I do see lots of people discussing. Making mistakes is healthy, as it allows us to learn from them. This is beneficial and it's what discussion boards are for.
I have now checked and I see that most grammar books do indeed describe these as neuter. As tractor says, this is just a question of terminology, as they do take the masculine form. The course I studied with used all-Spanish instruction and tried to avoid technical descriptions. All they told us was that it referred to abstract ideas, and agreed with masculine forms. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5452 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 24 of 24 05 March 2010 at 11:55am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I agree. Yours and Arekkusu's claims forced me to think through why I think there are neuter pronouns in Spanish. And that process was in itself beneficial for me. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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