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"Whose" language is Japanese ? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Whisky Triglot Groupie Germany Joined 5944 days ago 63 posts - 64 votes  Speaks: German, French*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 1 of 17 19 February 2010 at 3:53pm | IP Logged | ||
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In French at least, there are a few expressions associating a language with a notorious writer, such as
-la langue de Molière -la langue de Shakespeare -la langue de Goethe ... Who'd be the emblematic writer for Japanese and would a consensus be expected ? While we're at it, I'd be curious about similar set expressions for other languages :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| lichtrausch Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5959 days ago 525 posts - 1072 votes Speaks: English*, German, Japanese Studies: Korean, Mandarin | Message 2 of 17 19 February 2010 at 4:27pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think it would be hard to get a consensus on one author. Some candidates would be Natsume Soseki, Mori Ogai, Mishima Yukio, Kawabata Yasunari, Matsuo Basho. Edited by lichtrausch on 19 February 2010 at 4:28pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Raincrowlee Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 6701 days ago 621 posts - 808 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin, Korean, French Studies: Indonesian, Japanese | Message 3 of 17 19 February 2010 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | ||
Hate to say this, but notorious means having a negative reputation, being well known for bad behavior, and thus not appropriate here. But to the topic: does the turn of phrase you're talking about really refer to the language as a whole? We have a similar phrase in English--"the language of [particular author]"--but that usually means the specific idiomatic usage by that author, rather than the language as a whole. At best, Shakespeare's language could be used to stand for the language of his time, but still not English as a whole. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6767 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 4 of 17 19 February 2010 at 4:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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I don't necessarily agree, Raincrowlee. I think English could probably be called "the language of Shakespeare" without
specifically referring to early modern English. I suppose Hemingway could also be substituted. (You're right of course in that our friend Whisky is mistaken to say "notorious". I think we would rather call these figures "seminal".) Funny that the greatest and most representative author of English literature would probably be Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, and for French would be Alexandre Dumas, yet you're not likely to say "the language of Doyle" or "the language of Dumas". Spain's great author, however, was Miguel de Cervantes, and you could probably say "the language of Cervantes" to mean Spanish. (Indeed, a quick Google search shows this is the case.) I think that in Japanese, you might rather refer to a famous poetry compilation: "the language of the Man'yoshu". Edit: Okay, so a Google search *does* show "the language of Dumas" being used to refer to French. Edited by Captain Haddock on 19 February 2010 at 4:50pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Felidae Diglot Newbie BrazilRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5406 days ago 28 posts - 34 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English Studies: French | Message 5 of 17 19 February 2010 at 6:52pm | IP Logged | ||
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Would portuguese be "la langue de Camões"?. I hate Camões so much...
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| Whisky Triglot Groupie Germany Joined 5944 days ago 63 posts - 64 votes Speaks: German, French*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 6 of 17 19 February 2010 at 8:33pm | IP Logged | ||
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Haha, you're entirely right of course, no idea how I came to use the word "notorious" as I did, esp. given that it has the same negative undertones in French, my mother tongue... I meant "famous", and "seminal" would fit very well too, thanks for the clarification - I am not particularly looking for dark personalities...
Back on topic : Thanks for the names of the japanese authors, I'll look them up ! However, I was also curious about names of authors who have made it into set, widespread expressions in current language, irrespectively of whether everyone in academic circles would actually agree that the honours are justified. It seems from the above that Shakespeare has gained more acceptance from the French than from English native speakers :D ? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Whisky Triglot Groupie Germany Joined 5944 days ago 63 posts - 64 votes Speaks: German, French*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 7 of 17 19 February 2010 at 8:39pm | IP Logged | ||
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BTW : I've never even heard of Camões, I must admit with some shame - but then again, I don't qualify as a language scholar :)
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| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6010 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 8 of 17 19 February 2010 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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"The language of Shakespeare" isn't popular in English because most English speakers can't understand Shakespeare!
It's a phrase that's mostly said by the type of person who insists on saying "he and I", "may I...?" and "to whom". To the rest of us, the English language isn't some great cultural or literary treasure, it's just what we speak! However, I do think that "the language of X" is a very Western European thing, so I doubt you'd hear a similar idea in Asia.... 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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