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"United Kingdom" or "Great Britain"

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31 messages over 4 pages: 1 2 3 4 
Johntm
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 Message 25 of 31
02 March 2010 at 7:59pm | IP Logged 
elvisrules wrote:
Johntm wrote:
I just call it England :\ I don't care if I offend people, because if you're offended by that you're way too sensitive. And you know what I mean anyway, and that's the point of language, right, effectively communicating ideas, politically correct or not.

You're not from the UK, so I don't think you're qualified to judge whether or not one is too sensitive on this issue or not. This is an old and complex issue. And I'm sorry, but it's not a clear way of communicating an idea because of its obvious ambiguity.
So many people I've met think Scotland is a region within England, which as a Scot, is of course a constant frustration to me.
In my coursebook for European Literature here in Flanders, Walter Scott comes under this section "England and Ireland", which I find absurd.
I know that Scotland, England, Wales, and the two Irelands are separate countries. But when someone says "Great Britain", "UK", or "England" here, most people think of England. If we are talking about another country, we use it's name. I didn't mean to say that I mix the countries names up and don't care, but that most people don't make a distinction between UK, England, and Great Britain here.
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Cainntear
Pentaglot
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 Message 26 of 31
03 March 2010 at 12:09am | IP Logged 
Johntm wrote:
Well, I have never met an actual Englander/Welshman/whatever else, so that's why I said "I don't care."

And I have never met you, Peter, so I don't care either.
Quote:
But I meant that when generally refering to that area, I use "England" as opposed to Great Britain/UK/whatever would be correct. But if I knew that a person was Irish/Scottish/Welsh, I wouldn't say "English."

I'm not sure I follow, Peter.
Generally referring to which area? If you mean the UK, then no -- it would not be correct, Peter.

Peter, you shouldn't have to know that someone is from Scotland in order to not call them English, just like you shouldn't have to know someone is from Peru in order to not call them Guatamalan. Do you see, Peter?

What I'm getting at, Peter, is that people have their own identities, and if you continue to call them something they aren't, Peter, it is really extraordinarily rude, irritating and offensive. Don't you get it yet, Peter? Do you feel my pain yet, Peter?

Now when you've offended someone by denying their own self-identity, the appropriate reaction is to apologise. What you shouldn't do is say "Well you're all the same to me" because, well I think that one's obvious, don't you, Peter?

Edited by Cainntear on 03 March 2010 at 12:18am
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Cainntear
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Scotland
linguafrankly.blogsp
Joined 6010 days ago
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Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic
Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh

 
 Message 27 of 31
03 March 2010 at 12:18am | IP Logged 
tommus wrote:
By this definition, Northern Ireland is not in the Olympics.

The International Olympic Committee uses "Great Britain".
http://www.olympic.org/en/content/National-Olympic-Committee s/great-britain/

This is just because of a little quirk in the historical timelines. The IOC (Irish Olympic Committee) was founded and recognised before independence, when Ireland was still part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, so there could not be a UK team. The GB team was then formed from the constituent countries of the former United Kingdom of Great Britain (Scotland, Wales, England). But when Ireland got partitioned into the Republic and the North, nobody could be bothered changing the name of the team.

Besides, as Northern Irish people automatically qualify for Irish citizenship, if you don't like competing for Great Britain, you're welcome to play for Ireland. Unionists are mostly happy competing for Great Britain, and Republicans would only ever compete for Ireland -- they wouldn't compete for either GB or UK.

None of the parties involved give two hoots about it.

Their identity, their choice. (Isn't that right, Peter?)
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Johntm
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 Message 28 of 31
03 March 2010 at 6:31am | IP Logged 
Cainntear wrote:
Johntm wrote:
Well, I have never met an actual Englander/Welshman/whatever else, so that's why I said "I don't care."

And I have never met you, Peter, so I don't care either.
Quote:
But I meant that when generally refering to that area, I use "England" as opposed to Great Britain/UK/whatever would be correct. But if I knew that a person was Irish/Scottish/Welsh, I wouldn't say "English."

I'm not sure I follow, Peter.
Generally referring to which area? If you mean the UK, then no -- it would not be correct, Peter.

Peter, you shouldn't have to know that someone is from Scotland in order to not call them English, just like you shouldn't have to know someone is from Peru in order to not call them Guatamalan. Do you see, Peter?

What I'm getting at, Peter, is that people have their own identities, and if you continue to call them something they aren't, Peter, it is really extraordinarily rude, irritating and offensive. Don't you get it yet, Peter? Do you feel my pain yet, Peter?

Now when you've offended someone by denying their own self-identity, the appropriate reaction is to apologise. What you shouldn't do is say "Well you're all the same to me" because, well I think that one's obvious, don't you, Peter?
If you're wondering, I know why you're doing the Peter thing.

I think I finally figured out how to explain what I've been trying to say and failing miserably at. I would assume this is the same for a lot of people in my area, but I have never asked anybody.

The terms Great Britain and United Kingdom are pretty much interchangeable with me, when I hear those I think of England and the "surrounding countries." I knew there was some difference, but as it has never been a point of curiousity to me, I have never looked for a distinction between the two terms, mainly because of apathy. Of course this thread has "enlightened" me, although I won't sweat it if I don't remember exactly what's what.

I'm sorry if I offended anybody, I really wasn't thinking of good ways to word my previous posts.
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Mr. E
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United States
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 Message 29 of 31
03 March 2010 at 6:40am | IP Logged 
I had a nice, long, polished post typed up, but I got an error when I tried to post it and lost the whole thing. I'm just going to post a shortened version, which now addresses the most recent post:

If someone from outside of the US referred to the entire country as "California" or "Texas", would you not be a little bit offended, confused, and holding a lower opinion of them? If they told you that they never learned the difference because of apathy, would you not see them as just a tad ignorant?

I do agree with your point that the terms are used interchangeably here, but personally I don't see that as a good thing or a more efficient way of communicating. It's like how many Americans refer to all Asians as Chinese. It's inaccurate, confusing, and just plain ignorant. And we wonder why the rest of the world hates us.

I guess this post ended up being about as long as my other one.
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Johntm
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 Message 30 of 31
03 March 2010 at 6:58am | IP Logged 
Mr. E wrote:
I had a nice, long, polished post typed up, but I got an error when I tried to post it and lost the whole thing. I'm just going to post a shortened version, which now addresses the most recent post:

If someone from outside of the US referred to the entire country as "California" or "Texas", would you not be a little bit offended, confused, and holding a lower opinion of them? If they told you that they never learned the difference because of apathy, would you not see them as just a tad ignorant?

I do agree with your point that the terms are used interchangeably here, but personally I don't see that as a good thing or a more efficient way of communicating. It's like how many Americans refer to all Asians as Chinese. It's inaccurate, confusing, and just plain ignorant. And we wonder why the rest of the world hates us.

I guess this post ended up being about as long as my other one.
I do see what you mean, and another analogy would be all Central and South Americans being all "Mexicans." With all my Asian/Hispanic friends, I ask what country they are from. Mainly because of curiousity.

And I know it would seem ignorant, but I never talk about Great Britain or the UK so there has never been an incentive to learn the difference.
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Rhian
Moderator
France
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 Message 31 of 31
03 March 2010 at 12:47pm | IP Logged 
Johntm, well now you know so you can start using the terms correctly and perhaps even enlighten those around
you when they use the wrong terms! :-)

Now is that the matter over with? It seems like it's turning into bickering and as enlightened language learners does
that not seem beneath us? ;-) (The wink is there for those who do not get my wonderfully amusing joke)


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