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Beginning Latin | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| H.Computatralis Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 6247 days ago 130 posts - 210 votes  Speaks: Polish*, French, English Studies: German, Spanish, Latin | Message 73 of 103 29 August 2007 at 9:16am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yes, but the problem with Latin is that there are no native speakers, so almost everyone who speaks it has an accent. I think only people who study it for years are able to speak it like the Romans. Personally, I'm more interested in reading and writing than speaking. The audio is more of a way to use my time more efficiently (I can't read flashcards while walking the dog). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| JasonChoi Diglot Senior Member Korea, South Joined 6302 days ago 274 posts - 298 votes Speaks: English*, Korean Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese, Latin | Message 74 of 103 29 August 2007 at 10:41am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Realistically, I don't think even experts know how Latin was properly spoken (especially the intonation of the language) but accents are still comprehensible. Moreover, all of the audio content I referred to claims to use the restored classical pronunciation.
And as you can probably tell, Church latin (i.e. Italian Latin) is enough for me ;) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| H.Computatralis Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 6247 days ago 130 posts - 210 votes Speaks: Polish*, French, English Studies: German, Spanish, Latin | Message 75 of 103 29 August 2007 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Actually, they do. A lot of research has been done on this subject. The way they figured it out is from the poetry. The Roman poets used complex rhythm and rhyme rules invented by the Greeks (the so called "meter"). From the rhymes they deduced the sounds and from the rhythm of the poems they deduced the syllable length and intonation of every single sound. If the pronunciation were different the poems would not work. Of course, there was a difference between the formal written language and the colloquial spoken language. Colloquial Latin doesn't even use the same grammar.
But very annoying. I can't stand hearing "habere" pronounced with an English "r" or with an elided "h". Never mind ecclesiastical Latin. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| furyou_gaijin Senior Member Japan Joined 6329 days ago 540 posts - 631 votes Speaks: Latin* | Message 76 of 103 29 August 2007 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
That's exactly the point I was making earlier in this thread... :) Of the several audio links quoted here, the French one sounded really French, the English one - English, and the Finnish radio was indistinguishable from... the Finnish radio, unless one is really paying attention to what is being said. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| JasonChoi Diglot Senior Member Korea, South Joined 6302 days ago 274 posts - 298 votes Speaks: English*, Korean Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese, Latin | Message 77 of 103 29 August 2007 at 10:33pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
This is fascinating! However, poetic readings of Latin aren't necessarily the same as daily conversational Latin. I could understand reconstructing pronunciation, but I don't see how one can figure out the actual intonation of the language. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't some kind of standard intonation of Latin.
But very annoying. I can't stand hearing "habere" pronounced with an English "r" or with an elided "h". Never mind ecclesiastical Latin.[/QUOTE] heh, some accents aren't too bad, while others are horrible. My standard is this: If it doesn't sound like Latin, then I know when to cringe ;) The funny thing is, I've heard enough Latin in both classical and church latin that now I'm so used to saying phrases in one pronunciation while saying other phrases in the other pronunciation. heh, I wonder what's going to happen to me ;) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6413 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 78 of 103 30 August 2007 at 1:33am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Actually, while it is possible to determine word stress, same can't be said about the pronunciation of vowels or consonants. Theoretically, Romans could even have used nasal vowels like French (unlikely, but there's no conclusive evidence to the contrary).
Also, be aware that with an empire that large and comparatively little communication (even the soldiers were often foreigners), there are bound to have been enormous dialectal differences. As far as I know, some scientists are currently trying to draw some conclusions about Latin pronunciation by analysing the lava of Pompeii, which may have conserved sound waves. Edited by Sprachprofi on 30 August 2007 at 1:38am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| JasonChoi Diglot Senior Member Korea, South Joined 6302 days ago 274 posts - 298 votes Speaks: English*, Korean Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese, Latin | Message 79 of 103 30 August 2007 at 2:47am | IP Logged | ||||||||
o_O? Is such a thing possible? This actually sounds a bit ridiculous, but if it's true, this is really interesting! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| H.Computatralis Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 6247 days ago 130 posts - 210 votes Speaks: Polish*, French, English Studies: German, Spanish, Latin | Message 80 of 103 30 August 2007 at 6:05am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Not exactly. Linguists know that there is only a limited number of possible sound changes over time in a given language. In addition, sound changes are extremely regular. They occur uniformly over the entire vocabulary. You can use this knowledge to deduce sound changes in the romance languages. First, they have taken words derived from Latin (e.g. French "personne") and also words borrowed from other languages a certain time ago (e.g. Spanish "perro" from Arabic). By comparing the sound changes in these words they can figure out which sound changes occurred in which languages and approximately in what time period. By tracing back sound changes in all romance languages they eventually arrived at late vulgar (colloquial) Latin. In addition, Latin also has some borrowed words. By comparing the Latin words with the words borrowed from other languages it is possible to deduce a fair amount of pronunciation.
Of course. These dialects are now commonly called French, Spanish, Italian, and so forth. ;) In modern languages too there are enormous dialectal differences. Just look at Quebec French and Parisian French.
LOL! That's got to be the funniest thing I have ever read on these forums. I'm not sure I believe it, but good luck to them anyway. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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