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Beginning Latin | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| JasonChoi Diglot Senior Member Korea, South Joined 6302 days ago 274 posts - 298 votes  Speaks: English*, Korean Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese, Latin | Message 81 of 103 12 September 2007 at 7:10am | IP Logged | |||||
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-Update-
Due to a staffing crisis at my work place, I've been asked to work over time, and so my time with Latin has been quite minimal. I've spent the past week and a half simply listening to some of the Adler podcasts from Latinum, and Lingua Latina. I've decided to try a different learning strategy. The idea is to comprehend everything in steps. I have a tendency to want to know everything all at once, but since it's been affecting the way I study, I think it is a better idea to do it this way: 1 - Passively listen to a specific chapter of Lingua Latina (this is like a warm up) 2 - Actively listen and read the same text simultaneously, while underlining everything I don't understand 3 - Read the text and make sure to understand all the content before going on. 4 - Actively listen and read again 5 - Shadow while listen/reading the same text. 6 - Take a break, and listen passively while doing something else This, in a sense, is along the lines of the Birkenbihl approach to language learning. I haven't exactly tried this idea yet, but I like the idea of comprehension coming quite gradually rather than trying to do it all at once, which generally never works for me anyway. Edited by JasonChoi on 12 September 2007 at 7:13am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| JasonChoi Diglot Senior Member Korea, South Joined 6302 days ago 274 posts - 298 votes Speaks: English*, Korean Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese, Latin | Message 82 of 103 03 October 2007 at 2:13am | IP Logged | |||||
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-Update-
After experimenting with Lingua Latina, I realized my problem was comprehending the text. I had spent too much time trying to 'figure out' the meaning. So I decided to switch to Teach Yourself Beginner's Latin (since I found the translation online). I'm amazed by how much more I can grasp by using it. Essentially, I used the listening/reading audio book method. 1 - Listen in Latin while reading in English 2 - Listen in Latin while reading in Latin 3 - Listen in Latin while shadowing (repeat as many times as necessary) By understanding the English, I wouldn't have to 'deciper' the Latin text as I heard it in Latin. The English translation instantly gave me a quick grasp of the meaning, thus saving me a tremendous amount of time. The great thing about this is that it enables me to focus exclusively on listening and producing the language. In all my years of language learning, my biggest problem was not having full comprehension, but now that the English text provides the meaning, I can easily focus on listening and producing the language without ever worrying about whether I understand or not. This is one tremendous timesaver. While I like Lingua Latina, since it's understandable, it takes time to figure out some of the phrases. I can't exactly go through a chapter as quickly as I like. However, with the English translation of the Teach Yourself series, the English would give me a grasp of the story/dialog which I would generally commit to *visual* memory (this is VERY important!). Thus, when I'd hear the Latin, I'd simply link the pictures in my mind to the words. In short, I would turn the English translation into a mental picture (or pictures). Then I'd listen to the Latin while imagining the mental picture. Thus, rather than actually translating, I'm using mental images as a 'link' between the two languages. 1) listen to Latin, while reading the English text (thus formulating the images) 2) listen to Latin, while reading the Latin text (while recalling the same images) I thought of this idea after I watched Stuart Jay Raj's interview on youtube. He mentioned the importance of thinking in meanings. I took that insight and put it in the form of a picture. At the moment, it seems to help, but I wonder how helpful it will be. I plan to try this for a while. Additionally, I'm using a top-bottom approach: First, I'd understand the entire text first (which is done easily by reading the English). Then, I'd understand the individual sentences. Next I'd focus on idioms/phrases and vocabulary (I treat idioms as the same as vocabulary). Afterwards, I'd focus on grammar (declensions, etc), and other nitty gritty details that I may've missed. I'm doing this partly because I know I'd focus too much on everything all at once, which would significantly slow my progress. The idea is to first get the big picture then go into the finer details of the language as I'm repeatedly reviewing the text. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| JasonChoi Diglot Senior Member Korea, South Joined 6302 days ago 274 posts - 298 votes Speaks: English*, Korean Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese, Latin | Message 83 of 103 15 October 2007 at 7:43am | IP Logged | |||||
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Latin is becoming a bit more interesting. Rather than simply listening/reading and shadowing the content, I've decided to add another dimension to the way I'm learning Latin. Inspired by a technique from TPRS (which is a teaching method that I have not fully learnt), I've decided to trying using the 'circling technique' which is basically using the wh questions (who, what, where, when, etc).
The idea is to make learning a bit more active. In the middle of a text, I would see a sentence, and immediately ask a question about what I just read. Basically, I would stop the reading and play the role of a teacher by asking the question. For example, a sentence would say, "John went to the bathroom" Question: Where did John go? Answer: John went to the bathroom. Question: Who went to the bathroom? Answer: John. As simple as this may sound, this has dramatically affected my listening/reading methods: As I would listen while reading a text in a foreign language, I would abruptly stop and ask myself a question based on the sentence. For example: "Sparta oppidum Graecum est." So I'd ask: "Estne Sparta oppidum Romanum?" This forces me to respond properly by saying: "Sparta non oppidum Romanum, sed oppidum Graecum est" The great thing about simply questioning everything I see in a text is that it forces me to produce language (with both questions and answers). If I can't do it, then I know exactly what I need to learn and practice! It gives me immediate feedback which is exactly what I want! Plus, this is an active approach to reading rather than a passive one. It literally focuses my attention! So I would constantly switch between being a teacher and the learner. I suppose kinesthetic learners would like this by literally standing in one spot as the teacher and standing in the other spot as the learner. I'm still experimenting with this, and I'm thinking of using this after having listened/read/shadowed a text enough times. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| H.Computatralis Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 6247 days ago 130 posts - 210 votes Speaks: Polish*, French, English Studies: German, Spanish, Latin | Message 84 of 103 15 October 2007 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
Just a small note. If you want to ask a question and expect a negative answer you should use "num" as in "Num Sparta oppidum Romanum est?" 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| H.Computatralis Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 6247 days ago 130 posts - 210 votes Speaks: Polish*, French, English Studies: German, Spanish, Latin | Message 85 of 103 16 October 2007 at 11:20am | IP Logged | |||||
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Besides, I mean no offense, but I think you're focusing too much on method, and not enough on actual study. In my opinion, learning a language is 10 percent method and 90 percent hard work. Just to support my claim: I've been studying Latin about two months and I'm currently at the subjunctive mood and constructions. All that using the old "sit down, take out the freaking textbook, and do your homework" approach.
I'm not trying to discourage you or anything, but you just remind me so much of the people who try various "miracle diets", when in fact there's no simple short cut to loose weight - eat less, exercise more. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| JasonChoi Diglot Senior Member Korea, South Joined 6302 days ago 274 posts - 298 votes Speaks: English*, Korean Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese, Latin | Message 86 of 103 16 October 2007 at 9:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, I'm fully aware of this but I am not accustomed to saying it that way (yet).
For sure, I've gone through different stages of how I've been learning. But it's clear to me that "hard work" doesn't cut it for me. It generates more stress. I believe that languages should be learned naturally, and this is not to be confused with your claim that I'm using some kind of 'miracle diet' approach. I'm using a listening approach which seems far more effective rather than doing grammar drills. This approach also requires a lot of repetitive listening (and therefore patience), so it is nothing like an miracle diet. Additionally, as a former language teacher, I'm highly interested in teaching methodology, which is why I'm trying several different things (I'm eventually planning to go back into teaching). Having taught for two years, it's clear to me that methodology is critical to learning. Horrible methods with a lot of hardwork will not generate good results. As for me, the grammar method just doesn't really work. I've learned that way with 3 different languages for over 8 years. TPRS, by the way, has been used quite effectively in language classes which is why I've decided to implement one of the techniques from TPRS into my own learning and it makes a huge difference. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| JasonChoi Diglot Senior Member Korea, South Joined 6302 days ago 274 posts - 298 votes Speaks: English*, Korean Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese, Latin | Message 87 of 103 20 October 2007 at 10:21am | IP Logged | |||||
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Wow. For a long time, I was under the impression that I really wasn't learning much of anything by the ways I've been learning. I went to a Latin Mass (novus ordo for those who are curious) which is rarely offered in Korea.
I was pleasantly surprised to notice all sorts of grammar patterns and words that I have been learning. I don't fully understand how everything works, but it was quite a whole new experience to hear an actual Mass said in Latin and to actually understand a huge chunk of it compared to the previous time I went several months ago! It's a great feeling to know that I have in fact improved quite a bit just by the little that I've learned. Edited by JasonChoi on 20 October 2007 at 10:24am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| JasonChoi Diglot Senior Member Korea, South Joined 6302 days ago 274 posts - 298 votes Speaks: English*, Korean Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese, Latin | Message 88 of 103 29 October 2007 at 8:22am | IP Logged | |||||
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Latin is steadily moving right along. I've been slowly figuring out what works for me. I can't seem to learn more than an hour at a time. In fact, a 30-minute block can sometimes be too much. So I've divided my learning into two or three 15 minute sessions throughout a day (morning, afternoon, evening).
Since I'm studying Chinese and Korean along with Latin, 15 minutes of each language seems sufficient as I am in no rush to learn Latin all at once (which just causes me a lot of stress anyway). Plus, having read about the importance of repetition, I think it's critical that I frequently review to the point where I fully master the content before I go on to the next part. I've been spending the first 15 minutes familiarizing myself with a new content of Familia Romana (by simply listening to it semi-passively the first time, then I would make sure I understand the grammar, which is generally understood based on context. After this I would listen to the text again). Then with the second 15 minute block, I'd listen/shadow it & review the previous lesson (by also listening/shadowing). The third session would be a continuation of the second block. I've also been passively listening to the same lessons while I'm talking a walk or commuting. Sometimes when I listen, I'd practice saying words that have the rolled Rs. I was literally taking any word with an R in it (whether it be English or Latin), and I would walk down a street while saying words like "Interrogat", "Rreally?", "Rright", "Terra". As I did this, I pretended to be a child. That makes a HUGE difference :) Learning the rolled R was a pain for a long time, but now I've almost got it down! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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