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Journey through Asian languages | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| solidsnake Diglot Senior Member China Joined 6984 days ago 469 posts - 488 votes  Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 9 of 25 29 January 2008 at 2:09am | IP Logged | ||
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Insightful post WANNABEAFREAK. I live in SoCAl where there is a big HK/GZ community and I find that they often "use" me (in a "language rapist" way) to practice their (usually godawful) Mandarin. Cantonese may be still be strong in HK (I've never been there) but it pales in comparison to Mandarin every where else in the world it seems. Glad to hear your Cantonese is coming along nicely though. Keep up the hard work.
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| Asiafeverr Diglot Senior Member Hong Kong Joined 6285 days ago 346 posts - 431 votes 1 sounds Speaks: French*, English Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese, Shanghainese, German | Message 10 of 25 29 January 2008 at 4:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for your advices WANNABEAFREAK.
When I was in Hong Kong most people spoke to me in Mandarin. Many people had the "My Mandarin is not good, let's speak English" excuse but if I kept answering them in Mandarin they would usually switch. I do realize that I will have to learn Cantonese to a near-native level in order to live there but I still have time for this. I will study for the next 3 years and cover my expenses with a student loan. I will see what I can do afterwards. I currently put most of my efforts into learning the characters, which I have to learn no matter what. My plan is subject to change but here is what I currently plan to do. Once I know the HSK A characters, I will start learning Cantonese through self-teaching material and friends (about 85% of the students come from Hong Kong so I will receive a lot of input). Each of the universities I am applying to also have about 1,000 students from Mainland China so it will be easy to polish my Mandarin at the same time. I will continue to learn characters while learning both languages. My Mandarin is already at an intermediate level so I think 3 years is enough to become fluent in Mandarin and proficient in Cantonese. Maybe I should start learning Cantonese immediatly and stop learning characters for a while. Any thoughts about that? My flight to Hong Kong is leaving on the 16th of July (this date is subject to change). By that time, I can either be illiterate and know some Cantonese or understand no Cantonese but be able to read a little bit. Note: Sorry if this text contains a lot of spelling and grammar mistakes, this computer does not have a spell-checker. Edited by Asiafeverr on 29 January 2008 at 4:09pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| WANNABEAFREAK Diglot Senior Member Hong Kong cantonese.hk Joined 6770 days ago 144 posts - 185 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, Cantonese Studies: French | Message 11 of 25 29 January 2008 at 8:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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When I was in Hong Kong most people spoke to me in Mandarin. Many people had the "My Mandarin is not good, let's speak English" excuse but if I kept answering them in Mandarin they would usually switch. I do realize that I will have to learn Cantonese to a near-native level in order to live there but I still have time for this. I will study for the next 3 years and cover my expenses with a student loan. I will see what I can do afterwards.
But what's the point of practising Mandarin with people who speak it poorly? You'll end up speaking rubbish Mandarin. The average person I know hear of course can speak it, but poorly. If you go to Australia, would you try to learn French from a year 10 school student? I currently put most of my efforts into learning the characters, which I have to learn no matter what. My plan is subject to change but here is what I currently plan to do. Once I know the HSK A characters, I will start learning Cantonese through self-teaching material and friends (about 85% of the students come from Hong Kong so I will receive a lot of input). Each of the universities I am applying to also have about 1,000 students from Mainland China so it will be easy to polish my Mandarin at the same time. I will continue to learn characters while learning both languages. My Mandarin is already at an intermediate level so I think 3 years is enough to become fluent in Mandarin and proficient in Cantonese. You don't need characters in Hong Kong. All street signs are in English. Many of the Mainland students are from GZ anyway who prefer Cantonese. From what I know of Hong Kong people... and friends who go to University in HK... You'll struggle to get them to speak Chinese as their English is at a fluent level already. They would want compensation in terms of exchange or tutition fee. I reckond honestly you will make a mistake by trying to learn both languages at same time. I tried it and failed. A jack of all trades but a master of none. Also I learn characters by attending a local school. The teacher speaks only Cantonese and the students are all overseas-born native speakers. No English is spoken. Looking at the Mandarin classes, I can hear English spoken a lot. Maybe I should start learning Cantonese immediatly and stop learning characters for a while. Any thoughts about that? My flight to Hong Kong is leaving on the 16th of July (this date is subject to change). By that time, I can either be illiterate and know some Cantonese or understand no Cantonese but be able to read a little bit. Seriously dude... You'll regret learning Mandarin if you want to live in Hong Kong. The countless "gwai lou" who learn Mandarin and find NO USE for it is embarrassing. The crap about being able to do business in China is rubbish. I can assure you Hong Kong people will prefer to do business in English and Cantonese only. If you are westerner, in particular English. Go to http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/ and learn cantonese. Learning Cantonese will do wonders for you and you'll be able to pick up Mandarin later if you ever find a need. Why on earth would an educated Hong Kong person who speaks good English speak to you in their crappy Mandarin? Realistically speaking if you learn Cantonese fluently you'll get far in society. I don't think you'll get to Native level anytime soon. 15+ years later is more likely unless you live and breath Chinese non-stop, have a chinese wife who has NO ENGLISH, fix your TV to TVB or ATV and start walking around telling people you are German/French (not sure your nationality) and cannot speak a word of English. Learning Cantonese is the way for an interactive future in Hong Kong. Imagine you want to move to America and instead of learning English, you learn Spanish instead. Edited by WANNABEAFREAK on 29 January 2008 at 8:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| solidsnake Diglot Senior Member China Joined 6984 days ago 469 posts - 488 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 12 of 25 29 January 2008 at 8:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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WANNABEAFREAK makes good points. Obsession, and obsession alone will bring you to fluency. Saying things like "3 years" just makes you sound foolish.
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| Tatoeba Groupie United States Joined 6092 days ago 69 posts - 70 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Danish, French | Message 13 of 25 29 January 2008 at 9:09pm | IP Logged | ||
If your moving to Southern California, I think it would be smarter to learn Spanish. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| rob Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6108 days ago 287 posts - 288 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Spanish, Dutch, Portuguese, Norwegian, Mandarin | Message 14 of 25 30 January 2008 at 12:08am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm surprised you found so many people willing to speak Mandarin with you in HK. As others have said, this is the country's third language, after Cantonese, then English.
If you want to move to Hong Kong for a long time, you simply have to learn Cantonese. That is the language of the country. Not doing so would be like learning French and moving to Italy. Sure, you might be understood by some people, some people may even be able to hold a conversation with you, but it won't be the language of the country. I understand you've spent a lot of time on Mandarin, and it's tough to think of switching. But like I said, Cantonese and traditional characters are the way forward. You can learn simplified characters afterwards, but I wouldn't waste time learning them before Cantonese, as they won't be of any use. You will get further in HK with English than with Mandarin, but even English won't be welcomed by some people (think of what this says for Mandarin). By the way, this is not the advice I would give if you simply said you wanted to learn Mandarin and Cantonese. But moving to HK is completely different. Also, you said both "characters, which I have to learn no matter what" and "Maybe I should... stop learning characters for a while", so I'm confused about what you mean... As for Mandarin, personally I would aim to maintain the level you have reached with the exchange students, but I definitely wouldn't prioritise it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6493 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 15 of 25 30 January 2008 at 1:44am | IP Logged | ||
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I've seen what you're capable of. Learn em both. It might be wiser to make Cantonese your primary, while dialing down Mandarin a notch. The mainland students at school will give you enough immersion in Mandarin when you want it. Good luck man!
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| Asiafeverr Diglot Senior Member Hong Kong Joined 6285 days ago 346 posts - 431 votes 1 sounds Speaks: French*, English Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese, Shanghainese, German | Message 16 of 25 03 February 2008 at 8:08am | IP Logged | ||
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Since about 1 week my iPod only plays sound through the left earplug no matter what set of earphones I use so I am forced to use my laptop in order to listen to this, which is not as convenient as using my iPod because I cannot use it everywhere.
I am currently using Fun with Cantonese - Sounds and Tones. The first 2 chapters cover all the possible sounds in Cantonese and the 3th chapter covers the tones. I plan to listen to the first 2 chapters until I can clearly hear the nuances between every sounds and then I will move to the 3th chapter. With Mandarin I tried to speak right when I started and now I have a foreign accent when speaking the language. I will try to listen the sounds of Cantonese before pronouncing any of them; I hope it will help my pronounciation. I learned most of my English by reading English websites and my pronounciation is horrible because I did not have any speaking practice until very recently, if I listen to Cantonese a lot, read the romanization while listening and then try to imitate the sounds, my pronounciation should be close to the native one. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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