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Learning the minority languages of the RF | ||
Tags: Russia | Endangered Language | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Wilco Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6329 days ago 160 posts - 247 votes  Speaks: French*, English, Russian | Message 1 of 38 16 January 2010 at 4:47am | IP Logged | ||
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Did anybody study one of the minority languages of the Russian federation?
For my part, I attended Tatar-language class for about one year when I was in Moscow, and I did study Dargin, Ossetian, Bashkir and Buryat, but not enough to hold an actual conversation. I thought about seriously studying Tatar, but some things kept discouraging me. Of course, the scarcity of learning ressources is a problem, but you can still find some great textbooks and dictionaries in the Republics. What seems to be a general negative attitude towards the minority languages, not only among the majority population, is really what bothered me. Having acquired some conversation skills, I went in the tatar-populated areas of the Volga, just to find out that russification was more advanced than I thought. Even worse, those who still speak the language were more curious to find out why would I learn such a useless dialect, instead of a "real" language... Really sad to see how common has become linguistic self-depreciation, but you really can't blame them. But even now I would encourage anyone interested in learning these languages. Some of them are indeed quite interesting: Udmurt, Chuvash, Tatar/Bashkir, Buryat, Tuvan and of course the fascinating Avar, Dargin, Chechen, Ossetian... As I said, although resources are scarce outside of the RF, you can find some great material on place (and online). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7155 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 2 of 38 16 January 2010 at 5:49am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for the encouragement. Years ago I remember borrowing a copy of Hippocrene's Tatar-English/English-Tatar dictionary just to get a sense of how similar Tatar was to Turkish and to see if I could find Tatar equivalents of Turkic loanwords in Hungarian (I was studying Hungarian at the time... and yes, borrowing a Tatar dictionary for this purpose was damned nerdy, but I really wanted to know!)
Unfortunately my inability to use Russian bars me from using Russian-language materials in certain Uralic or Altaic languages that interest me (although your observation on Russification with natives' self-deprecation makes me wonder how there are still some Russian-language materials in minority languages available at all!). I think that it'd be cool if I could teach myself some Kazakh or Kyrgyz - I know that the University of Arizona and Indiana University (or its old Department of Uralic and Altaic Studies) put out some English-language materials in Kazakh. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5520 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes Speaks: Swedish* | Message 3 of 38 16 January 2010 at 11:24am | IP Logged | ||
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I was once looking for manuals to learn the language of the Russian Gypsies, but now I am more interested in learning Tuvan, it seems like a very interesting place to visit. Plus I just started wrestling, so I could take some classes there...
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| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5837 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 4 of 38 16 January 2010 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think this seems like a very unrealistic idea unless you live in the area where these languages are spoken. The people are bilingual anyway, aren't they?
These people need to make a undertaking themselves towards keeping their languages alive. Anyone who didn't alreay speak fluent Russian would have to learn that before before they even tried this because it is unlikely that learning material exists in any other language. Learning fluent Russian should keep you busy for the next few years.. after which you may have a different view on tackling the language of a people who already speak Russian. I don't really understand how a random American or West European person knowing one of these languages would benefit the survival of the language in its original habitat. I can't see it being any use at all unless you moved there and became an activist. To each his own though! This is just my personal opinion and I have a very practically oriented view of the world 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5520 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes Speaks: Swedish* | Message 5 of 38 16 January 2010 at 12:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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I actually can't see where anyone has mentioned activism as a reason for learning these obscure languages. I personally wasn't worried about the survival of the Gypsy language, I just thought it would be cool to talk to them in their language.
Many people across the world are sort of bilingual in English, that doesn't put us off from studying their languages, mostly because it's fun, challenging and brings us closer to the culture in question. At the very least, the people you would meet in Yakutsk and speak Yakutian to would see that their language is worth studying. By the way, anyone going to St Petersburg should visit the musuem of ethnography, right next to the Russian Museum. It's absolutely brilliant, with a vast collection of clothes, utensils and photographs from the days when each region had its own culture. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| elvisrules Tetraglot Senior Member BelgiumRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5468 days ago 286 posts - 390 votes Speaks: French, English*, Dutch, Flemish Studies: Lowland Scots, Japanese, German | Message 6 of 38 16 January 2010 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | ||
From my experience, people only start to realize the enormous cultural significance of a language until it's almost gone. As polyglots and linguists, I feel it is our duty to spread understanding and respect of minority languages, and one of the best ways to do that is by learning the language. Your opinion of "why learn another language if you can speak a language the person/people already know" is one I thought us here on this forum had moved beyond... 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| elvisrules Tetraglot Senior Member BelgiumRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5468 days ago 286 posts - 390 votes Speaks: French, English*, Dutch, Flemish Studies: Lowland Scots, Japanese, German | Message 7 of 38 16 January 2010 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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I clicked on "Useful? Click to VOTE for this post!" by accident. -_-
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| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5837 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 8 of 38 16 January 2010 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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Learning a language that is fairly different from your own is an enormous undertaking. We're talking about man months worth of effort, spread over years. Time is a short commodity and I simply cannot see the effort of learning one of these languages even remotely matching up with the potential benefit that you might get out of it. Unless you have some very unusual priorities.
In the case of Gustafu, if he already speaks fluent Russian, then he can communcate just fine with the Russian Gypsies (as mentioned in the example), in a mutually convenient language. Why isn't this sufficient? Is language a tool for communication and cultural appreciation? Or is it an end in itself? Perhaps some people have a much loser view of what it really means to "speak" a language than what I have... Sure, no doubt the Tatars, Yakutians or Buryats would be interested in the novelty of a Westerner turning up and saying "Hi how are you" "My name is X and I come from Y" in their language! Learning how to say phrases like this is neither here nor there. It takes only a few hours to memorise a bunch of phrases like that. If anyone gets a kick out of this, why not? However, I was assuming that you were talking about becoming fluent. Anything else is just a party trick, or useful in tricky tourist situations. Are you REALLY prepared to put in the effort needed to get to a point where you can discuss (without too many offputting grammatical mistakes) your own country, profession and interests in their language? Discuss their families, aspirations for the future and concerns about the present? Unless you are a language genius, we are talking about 1-2 years MINIMUM of serious time commitments! What are you going to sacrifice to make time for this project? If you already know Russian or study it, then you already can chat away with these people as much as you like in a mutually convenient language.... Personally I don't *get* where anyone would get the motivation for learning a second language to speak with people that you already have a fluent language in common with!? (As we have already concluded, it is impossible to sersiously study these languages unless you speak Russian to a high level.) Compare with a suggestion about a North American learning a Sami dialect (came up a while back). It's a great idea, but as non-Scandinavian they'd first have to learn a Scandinavian language in order to be able to use available Sami study material. And once they'd learnt a Scandinavian language (i.e. a couple of years later..) they'd already be able to communicate with all Sami people in a language that is just as convenient, if not more... Same principle. If anyone knows of a Westerner who has learnt a Russian minority language to a serious standard I'd like to hear about it! I think it hasn't happened or that it is incredibly rare simply for the reason that the effort FAR outweighs the gains. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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