adoggie Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6532 days ago 160 posts - 159 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese* Studies: German, Russian, French
| Message 1 of 5 15 February 2010 at 9:53am | IP Logged |
My Hammer's grammar book says the genitive pronouns are meiner, deiner, seiner, ihrer, seiner, unser, euer, Ihrer, and ihrer. Do they mean exactly this, that all genitive pronouns have an -er ending regardless of the noun they replace, or are there variants ending with -es, such as meines, as well?
Can a few people provide some basic sentences using genitive pronouns? The sentences in the Hammer book were rather complex.
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jae Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5663 days ago 206 posts - 239 votes Speaks: English*, German, Latin Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, French
| Message 2 of 5 15 February 2010 at 10:24am | IP Logged |
Not to worry. Yes, those endings are not correct for all situations, but it's not much harder.
Genitive:
Masculine - des
Feminine - der
Neuter - des
Plural - der
And then when you use possessives, just:
Masculine - meines, deines, seines, etc.
Feminine - meiner, deiner, seiner, etc.
Neuter - meines, deines, seines, etc.
Plural - meiner, deiner, seiner, etc.
And don't forget that you often have to add an ending to the noun as well (for masculine and neuter)! (Feel free to PM me if any of this doesn't make sense, or if you have other questions ;-) )
Edited by jae on 15 February 2010 at 10:24am
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Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map
| Message 3 of 5 15 February 2010 at 10:39am | IP Logged |
Your Hammer's grammar is completely and utterly wrong. See Wiktionary for an explanation with the relevant tables, where also the archaic form "meinige(r)" is mentioned
The attributive use is much more common than the predicative one, which even is spread over form with and without
an article.
It shouldn't be necessary to give examples of the attributive use. To find examples where the pronoun is used as a predicate try for instance a Google search for "meine(r/s), und" or another expression that cut out most cases of attributive use. Note that the pronoun is written with a capital letter when there is an article, because it then is analyzed as substantival. Without it is normally written with small letters because it is seen as adjectival, just as in its atributive role.
With article:
... jenen Namen, der meiner ist * BAD EXAMPLE, SEE BELOW
Sie wird die Meine!
Durch die Gunst des Auramazda schlug das Heer, das meines (ist), das feindliche Heer vollständig
And without:
Tom Ist Meiner Und Ich Liebe Ihn Wie Verrückt
Das ist keine fremde Lunge, das ist meine
Wir sagen, dies ist meines und das ist meines
"Meiniger" is rare, but not extinct:
Das Fahrveralten [sic] der Neapolitaner (und auch der meiniger) hat sich während meines Aufenthaltes stark verändert,
Es gibt sehr viele Meinungen, die Meinige und die Falschen
[Terrarienbau] Nun das Meinige*. Grüße!
* "das meiniges" is exceedingly rare (3 hits with Google), strangely enough "das meinige" is used instead.
Edited by Iversen on 16 February 2010 at 5:14am
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adoggie Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6532 days ago 160 posts - 159 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese* Studies: German, Russian, French
| Message 4 of 5 16 February 2010 at 3:18am | IP Logged |
Thanks, jae and Iversen. That Wiktionary bit was definitely helpful. However, the "article" part - does it translate into "the" or "that"/"who"/etc.?
Would somebody mind translating Iversen's sample sentences? My guess is that the first sentence says "that name, which of mine is." If this is the case, how can "der" be called an article?
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Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map
| Message 5 of 5 16 February 2010 at 5:09am | IP Logged |
The 'article part' is "der", "die", "das" etc.
Sorry for forgetting about the translations, - I thought that those people who were interested in these constructions already knew German
... jenen Namen, der meiner ist ---> that name which is mine ... *
Sie wird die Meine! ----> She will become mine
Durch die Gunst des Auramazda schlug das Heer, das meines (ist), das feindliche Heer vollständig ---> The the grace of Auramazda the army which is mine routed the enemy army completely
Tom Ist Meiner Und Ich Liebe Ihn Wie Verrückt ---> Tom is mine and I love him madly
Das ist keine fremde Lunge, das ist meine ---> That's not a foreign lung, it is mine
Wir sagen, dies ist meines und das ist meines ---> we say (that) this is mine and that is mine
Das Fahrverhalten der Neapolitaner (und auch der meiniger) hat sich während meines Aufenthaltes stark verändert, ----> The Neapolitans' way of driving (and mine too) has changed dramatically during my stay
Es gibt sehr viele Meinungen, die Meinige und die Falschen --> there are many opinions: the wrong ones and mine
[Terrarienbau] Nun das Meinige*. Grüße! ---> (about) terrarium building. Now my one. Greetings!
* you are right: this example is put in the wrong section, - 'der' is a relative pronoun in this sentence. I'll give you a couple of better examples:
Dein Wunsch ist auch der meine --> your wish is also mine (i.e. 'your wish is my wish')
Ich bin ein zeitloser Chor, vereinigt eure Stimme mit der meiner und besingt das Lied des ewigen Sieges --> I'm a timeless choir,unite your voice with mine and sing the song of the eternal victory ('der meiner': dative femininum)
It seems that "der meiner" as masculinum nominative is rare, - most examples shown by Google are either ungrammatical, accidental or exemplify the archaic word "Meiner" = "Lügner" (liar, cfr. "Meineid", perjury)
Edited by Iversen on 16 February 2010 at 5:26am
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