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As for ryuukohito, French, learns. | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| ryuukohito Bilingual Diglot Groupie Malaysia Joined 6179 days ago 89 posts - 98 votes  Speaks: EnglishC2*, Malay* Studies: French, Japanese | Message 17 of 43 10 February 2008 at 8:10am | IP Logged | ||
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Dear atamagaii,
Firstly, your reply did not touch upon those questions I sought answers to. And, as regards those answers you had given me, they were way too complex. I am not interested in grammatical explanations or their forms -- for those, I may easily refer to a grammar guide. Rather, I would have liked a simple explanation of things, and their purpose, as I had outlined in my questions. Secondly, as regards this comment of yours:
I do not intend to understand spoken French just yet -- at this point, I am still trying to acquaint myself with the sounds of the language. This I had made clear in my previous posts (had you read them). I do not appreciate your rudeness; it is distasteful, and it offends me. Edited by ryuukohito on 10 February 2008 at 8:22am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| atamagaii Senior Member Anguilla Joined 6149 days ago 181 posts - 195 votes Speaks: Apache* | Message 18 of 43 10 February 2008 at 8:49am | IP Logged | ||
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As to grammar. You wanted some examples, so I gave them to you. I couldn't have put it in a more simple way.
As to my rudeness. I wonder why people are so touchy. Damn it! If I got offended by such trifles, I'd have been dead before I was born, as I already said somewhere else. I did read your posts, finding them interesting. I won't bother you any more, so I hope you'll forgive me. Good luck! Edited by atamagaii on 10 February 2008 at 8:52am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Marie Diglot Newbie France Joined 6119 days ago 30 posts - 35 votes Speaks: French*, English | Message 19 of 43 10 February 2008 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | ||
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I wouldn't say that blind shadowing is a waste of time since you get used to the music, rhythm, and the sounds of the language (listening AND pronouncing). When you'll understand what's said, you'll know what "music" fits better for a situation.
About using the passé simple in a conversation. I think it would surprise (but you would be understood). People might think that you have learned from books. Or might think you sound kind of "snob". ;) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| vanityx3 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6404 days ago 331 posts - 326 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Spanish, Japanese | Message 20 of 43 10 February 2008 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | ||
Hi there I will try to answer your question to the best of my abilities without confusing you. Passé simple is a literary tense meaning it is only used in literature. 1. I've never heard of a past historic tense in French, so I can't answer this question. 2. Personally I think "archaic" is the wrong term to describe passé simple. I think it is better to think of the tense as only being used in literature. 3 and 4. If used in normal or even formal conversation you will be looked at strange. As far as I know passé simple is obsolete in spoken French. Here are some examples of passé simple from Le petit prince, I will give an English translation and and equivalent passé composé translation. (Since Passé simple is used as a substitute where you'd used passé composé in spoken French. Et il me répéta alors, (Passé simple) Et il m'est répété alors, . (Passé Composé) And then he repeated to me, Mais il fut refusé (Passé Antérieur) Mais il était refusé (Plus-que parfait) But he was refused Puis, il ajouta (Passé simple) Puis, il a ajouté (Passé composé) Then, he added. I hope I haven't confused you any as I do understand you're just beginning. I tried to keep my examples as simple as I could. The main reason I've found that passé simple has disappeared from spoken speech is that there are so many irregularities with passé simple than passé composé. Also many nous and vous verbs in passé simple don't have a very pretty sound. Edited by vanityx3 on 10 February 2008 at 1:02pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ryuukohito Bilingual Diglot Groupie Malaysia Joined 6179 days ago 89 posts - 98 votes Speaks: EnglishC2*, Malay* Studies: French, Japanese | Message 21 of 43 10 February 2008 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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Dear Marie,
Yes, that "music" thing about languages is what I was trying to say -- I'm trying to get used to the stress and pitches of words, and how they are emphasized. Dear vanityx3, Thank you! I see things quite clearly now thanks to your explanations. :) This may be a bit of a funny question, but I was also wondering, whether Le Petit Prince would be a good book for me to memorize? Would you recommend it? (I'll of course take note of the passé simple and replace it with passé composé. The reason for this being that I'm quite excited about using the Heinrich Schliemann method.) Edited by ryuukohito on 10 February 2008 at 5:08pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Marie Diglot Newbie France Joined 6119 days ago 30 posts - 35 votes Speaks: French*, English | Message 22 of 43 11 February 2008 at 3:18am | IP Logged | ||
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Just a little correction :
Et il me répéta alors, (Passé simple) Et il m'est répété alors, . (Passive form) (it was repeated to me / I was repeated) --> il m'a répété (Passé composé) Mais il fut refusé ->Passé simple, passive form (: être refusé) il a été refusé -> Passé composé (passive form) (Passé Antérieur - passive form: il eut été refusé)) Mais il était refusé (Plus-que parfait) --> Imparfait - passive form (Plus-que parfait - passive form) : il avait été refusé Avtive form: REFUSER Passé simple - il refusa Passé antérieur - il eut refusé Passé composé - il a refusé imparfait - il refusait (you have me to check it in my Bescherelle! About "le petit prince", I have it (both book and CD - told by Gérard Philipe). I remember that at school we once use it. (a simple part because it's not just a book for kid but a philosophic and poetic tale). I think you can use it: for personal culture, as language material... Note: Le Petit Prince says: "S'il vous plaît... Dessine-moi un mouton." In the first part he uses vous and in the second tu. (S'il te plaît... Dessine-moi un mouton. Or S'il vous plaît... Dessinez-moi un mouton.) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6413 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 23 of 43 13 February 2008 at 10:21am | IP Logged | ||
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I just released a short video teaching the IPA (international phonetic alphabet) symbols necessary for French. I am sure that if you learn how to read and write them, you can improve your French pronunciation, because your senses will be on the watch-out for subtle differences in pronunciation. Have a look if you like: either find it streamed at http://www.lingorilla.com/index.php?module=records (video called "IPA for French) or download it from my temporary server at http://www.learnlangs.com/temp/IPA_French.avi .
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| rodYon Pentaglot Newbie Croatia Joined 6091 days ago 38 posts - 38 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Serbian, Croatian*, Latin, French, English Studies: Italian | Message 24 of 43 13 February 2008 at 11:02am | IP Logged | ||
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passé simple can be often found in journalistic texts, as well as in subtitles (shorter than p.c.), but in spoken french.. jamais ou presque jamais. however, if you really want to master french in writing as well as in speaking, you should be able to use ps, en plus as it is used as a radix for forming subj.impf and a few surcomposés.
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