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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Rekunoto Senior Member United States Joined 6167 days ago 104 posts - 105 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Mandarin | Message 1 of 12 10 February 2008 at 9:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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Around last April, I started learning Chinese. I quit after only a couple months of moderate study. I never mastered tones or pronunciation, and I had never even considered learning how to write the characters.
During the summer, although I had given up Chinese, I still desperately wanted to learn a cool Asian language. Korean seemed like a good idea at the time. I spent two days on Korean before I was utterly horrified. Hangul was easy, but pronunciation was a nightmare. I dropped Korean just like I did Chinese. By the end of summer, I had almost completely forgotten everything I learned during that time. After starting, and dropping, two Asian languages so quickly, I had no motivation to start another language. I pretty much gave up acquiring languages. I went back to my typical American, monolingual, teenage life. Around September, I started watching a Japanese Show with English subs (Not for language learning purposes, I had just stumbled on it while I was browsing the web). The pronunciation seemed less obscure than both Chinese and Korean, so I looked into it. In a month or two, I had learned all the basic Japanese sounds. For the next five months, until now, I have immersed myself in Japanese. I tried Sushi, and loved it. I've read a lot about Japan, from Japanese visa policy's, to information about Geisha. "All Japanese all the time" inspired me to take a plunge. Today, I have changed my status from casual passenger of the Japanese language, to serious learner. I plan on using the method at AJATT, with a view modifications. First off, I have decided to learn all the Kana first (Katakana then Hiragana) then learn Kanji. Instead of using mnemonics to remember the symbols, I will use rote memorization, just like kids in Japan (and China) do. After learning how to write the characters, I will work on my reading skills, and basically follow the 10K sentence method. I know this plan is rather vague, but I don't want to get into to much detail. Being to organized in language learning can be a bad thing in my opinion. Anyways, thank you for taking the time to look through this journal entry. Any questions, comments, and advice is greatly appreciated. I will try to keep you all updated. Rekunoto 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Alkeides Senior Member Bhutan Joined 6140 days ago 636 posts - 644 votes | Message 2 of 12 11 February 2008 at 4:49am | IP Logged | ||
Just something to note, kids in Japan take 10 years of rote to memorize the 常用漢字. If you're going with mnemonics, you'll retain it far easier and in a much shorter time period. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| fredrik_w Diglot Newbie Sweden Joined 6336 days ago 7 posts - 7 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: Mandarin | Message 3 of 12 11 February 2008 at 7:54am | IP Logged | ||
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I agree with amphises, using root memorization will take much longer time. When you start learning characters, use both methods and later on decide if mnemonics is something for you or not.
I started learn Chinese characters three months ago (so far about 500 hanzi). I use both methods, some characters stick easily when whatching them a few times in my SRS, some I just need to create a short mnemonic story for. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kewms Senior Member United States Joined 6179 days ago 160 posts - 159 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese | Message 4 of 12 11 February 2008 at 11:48am | IP Logged | ||
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What amphises and fredrik said. Japanese (or any other country's) schools do not necessarily provide a good model for independent learners. The joy of learning on your own is that you can use whatever tools work for you, regardless of whether they are "officially approved" or not.
I do have a suggestion, though. Get a good electronic dictionary right away. (I like the Canon WordTank G55.) They look expensive, but if you don't get one you'll end up spending just as much money on paper dictionaries, then giving up and getting an electronic one anyway. (Yes, voice of experience here.) You might also want to get a good entry-level paper-based kanji dictionary, as when you don't know many kanji it can be hard to tell an electronic search what you want. (I like the Kanji Learner's Dictionary.) Good luck! Katherine 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Rekunoto Senior Member United States Joined 6167 days ago 104 posts - 105 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Mandarin | Message 5 of 12 12 February 2008 at 7:12am | IP Logged | ||
Thanks for the input everyone! Anyways, I already tried Heisig's book, and it helped me with complicated characters, but I felt like I was wasting a lot of time trying to remember long stories for simple Kanji. With rote memorization, all I have to do it remember the Kanji, it meaning, and the readings. I think I will probably end up doing what you do Fredrick (Some mnemonics, some rote). In any case, I started learning katakana yesterday. I am going very slowly (five a day) to make sure I retain them well. I am only 14, so I have plenty of time to learn the kana and kanji. Since kana only takes me ten minutes max. each day, I do a lot of other things too. Most vocabulary I learn is learned naturally. For example, If I hear a word on a song that I want to know, I will look it up online. I plan on having katakana done by next Tuesday (although I will review them in my SRS long after that). Please continue giving any feedback you may have. Thanks! EDIT: Ha! I went back to Heisig! I am so glad to. I am currently on frame 1760. Look at my present log book to see my progress. Edited by Rekunoto on 14 July 2008 at 2:18pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Rekunoto Senior Member United States Joined 6167 days ago 104 posts - 105 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Mandarin | Message 6 of 12 12 February 2008 at 10:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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I just finished up my kana for the day. My total right now is 14, so I am going at a rate of about seven a day. I reviewed them over and over, and I made short mnemonics for the kana that just wouldn't seem to stick. Unfortunately, I drank a Monster energy drink (first time I had tried one....it was disgusting) that was loaded with caffeine before I studied, so my handwriting was really shaky and jittery.
It looks like I have finally made a compromise between mnemonics and rote memorization, my road block to learning Japanese! Besides writing/reading, I also worked on listening a bit. Well not really "worked". I listened to music on my Ipod for around three hours. Although I think music helps your listening comprehension a lot, I also think it can only take you so far. Starting tomorrow, I plan on listening to a Japanese talk show or podcast (Not like Japanese pod...real Japanese people speaking at a normal rate) I don't want to force myself to speak and make my own sentences, because I don't want to develop a thick foreign accent. As difficult as it may seem, I am actually aiming to have a native Japanese accent. Well I guess that sums up my language learning portion of the day. Please continue giving any feedback/advice you may have! Edited by Rekunoto on 12 February 2008 at 10:08pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Alkeides Senior Member Bhutan Joined 6140 days ago 636 posts - 644 votes | Message 7 of 12 13 February 2008 at 11:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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It truly isn't really difficult to obtain a native Japanese accent! 頑張って！
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6760 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 8 of 12 14 February 2008 at 3:23am | IP Logged | ||
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I learned all the kanji in about a year using rote memorization and actual Japanese school textbooks. Like you, I found that complicated mnemonics were more trouble than just learning the character much of the time.
I second the need for an electronic dictionary. Personally, I use a Nintendo DS with the Kanji sono mama dictionary program, but there are some very nice stand-alone dictionaries that also let you write unknown kanji with a stylus. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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