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Baudelaire and 普通话 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Baudelaire Triglot Newbie France tatoeba.org Joined 6049 days ago 30 posts - 32 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishB2, Mandarin Studies: Latin, Shanghainese | Message 1 of 25 07 March 2008 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | ||
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晚上好
我是法国人，我学普通话，但是我一点点会说 中文。 ( could you correct this sentence please ^^ ) Ok it's just for me to keep a trace of how / when /what i learned mandarin , and maybe people could correct me if i make bad deduction and so on ( i try to do that in English but i'm not very fluent so if i make mistakes please correct me that will be cool ) ok first i'm 17 years old , and i'm learning 普通话 for 2 month now but i really begin since 2 week , i begin because our school has several schools in china and as i think like many people that china will be a great power in the future it could be interesting for someone who study informatiq /management to know this language /culture . By chance in France this year some of chinese student who are in the same school but in china come in, and i begin to chat with some of them ( very cute people , i don't know if all chinese people are like that but they're all very polite and so on) as i'm a student and i don't have many money i try to find on the internet some website where i could learn 普通话 , i find some but there were not enough ressource to be interesting for me ( i think these website is more for people who just want to learn / understand basic sentences for a trip ) . but with them i learn some vocabulary and begin to understand ver very basic grammar ( like 不 , how to make interrogativ sentence , how to express that something is mine ) 2 weeks ago i've found chinesepod.com and now i'm learning with that, someone gives a copy of the script and the vocabulary so i have audio / character / pinyin which very well to learn. In a first time as i study computing sciences and as do all my lesson in my school on my laptop ( my school doesn't use paper and pen ^^ ) , i just write chinese character with my keyboard , but some days ago i realise that in that way i just recognise characters , i'm not able to write them or to know which toun i should use to pronounce them ( as i just write the pinyin without toun and my computers tries to find the correct expression ) so now i'm discovering again pens and paper and i'm wrting chinese ! i've count currently i really know how to pronounce / how to write / the meanings and the toun of 35 characters and 50 words / expression and i think i can recognise ( i mean i can undestand the meaning ) of 100 / 125 words as i'm in holydays for the moment this last 2 weeks i've spent around 4 hours / day on learning chinese. to practise it i've regstered on QQ ( if people wants to add me just ask , i've also msn ) and chat with nativ chinese , but it's quite hard because when it's 12 am in Paris it's 19 am in beijing so ^^ , and i also speak with my chinese friends but it's quite different becase as they speak English fluently and as they also want to lean french i can speak chinese all the time with them ^^ ok it's late , i will continue tomorow 再见 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lawrence Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6125 days ago 149 posts - 149 votes  Speaks: Cantonese, English* Studies: German, French, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean | Message 2 of 25 08 March 2008 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | ||
你好 I think it should be: 晚上好 我是法国人﹐我在学普通话﹐但是我会说一点 中文 The 在 means that you are 'learning' Chinese, rather than just saying "I learn Chinese". The last clause, doesn't really make sense. It sounds like "but I a little can speak Chinese". Seeing that you're a native French speaker, I think that you may have translated 我学普通话 directly from "j'apprends putonghua". Similar to English, Chinese makes a distinction between "I learn" and "I am learning". :) You could have written 我是法国人﹐我学普通话, but the fact that you said 但是 after that sort of changes the meaning of the sentence. If you said 我学普通话，但是我会说一点中文, it would have meant "I learn Putonghua, but I can speak a little Chinese". It sounds kinda weird. If instead of 但是 you put 所以, it should be ok, or 我学普通话，但是我只会说一点中文 (I learn Putonghua, but I can only speak a little Chinese) should be ok too. Hope I helped :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| solidsnake Diglot Senior Member China Joined 6984 days ago 469 posts - 488 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 3 of 25 08 March 2008 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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If I could do it all over again, I would have been incorporating Chinese culture into my language as soon as I began. That means not answering things so literally, as a westerner would. Do not translate directly from English/French, etc. Also try to incorporate a little modesty and exaggeration into your replies for a stronger effect. A la:
你好！我是法国人,普通话就学了点皮毛而已, 语还讲得很烂,怎么办？ 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lawrence Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6125 days ago 149 posts - 149 votes Speaks: Cantonese, English* Studies: German, French, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean | Message 4 of 25 08 March 2008 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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While that advice is good, I think that what you wrote is a bit too difficult for a beginner. I think that you should at least gain a stronger foothold in the language, even if you are sounding a little unnatural, before you start to make it more complex, so that you feel more comfortable in it first.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Baudelaire Triglot Newbie France tatoeba.org Joined 6049 days ago 30 posts - 32 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishB2, Mandarin Studies: Latin, Shanghainese | Message 5 of 25 08 March 2008 at 6:54pm | IP Logged | ||
EDIT : ( ok i post message which are a bit long i will try to dothem shorter in the future ^^ )
i can't see the first 3 characters , why event if i choose UTF-8 / simplified chinese / traditional chinese I thought that in chinese for basic sentences , you have subject + verb + object but i was wrong ^^ the first meaning of my sentence was i'm learning mandarin but i can just speak a little i really thank you for your advice , today i've more focus on how to write the chinese characters i know for the moment and how to pronounce them correctly ( i've written a program which do quite the same thing than flashcards but with also the sound ^^ , ok i'm definitely a geek ) because (maybe i'm wrong ) i think it's really important to know the tones and also the way to write characters and solidsnake could you help me to understand exactly the meaning of your sentence , because i'm just learning for a few weeks ( so it's why i just done this sentence to show you that i'm a real beginner so i'm absolutely not able to do sentences with more than 2 verbs inside , you can see that's just trying to make a 1 verb sentence is something very difficult for me ^^ ok thant for explain me 在 , so it's quite like in English be verb+ing ? like i'm eating rice 我在吃饭 （ i've find that 吃饭 means also eat without precise what, i think it's full of meaning because it show the importance of rice in chinese culture , like yesterday i have a dinner with my chinese , she cooked , and we were talking about that ) i also want to know if thess sentences are correct （ i write them just to pratic) 女儿 : 我会不会去公园？ 妈妈 ：不去，但是你会去学校！ because for the moment i'm learning in that way ( ad it's the first language i learn by myself , maybe i'm going the wrong way) i learn vocabulary , those i find in chinesepod.com and in FSI , i write them , with the translation and after pinyin ( and of course first i write the "real" words ) and i try to remeber them i've found that when i see the character i just need a few second to remember the translation ( i think it's because i'm left handed and i have a real good visual memory ) , but when i see a English word ( or a french ^^ ) and i want to remember the chinese translation ( by writing the chinese word on a sheet of paper ) its more difficult ( maybe because i've also haveto remember how to write it) ( ok every time i will find something , it may be something that every one in the world already know except me , i know that many people have also already found that too ^^ ) for learning words i try to look at the pinyin just to be sure of the tones and pronunciation , so i just focus on the chinese characters and pronounce it many time till my brain links the sound to the characters ok that's all for today it's 3 AMin France , i'm just coming back from a party , i'm tired , i'm full of strange booze so go sleeping 谢谢 for solidsnake and the others who have already helped me and also for those who will help me in the future, your help is like the moon helping me to find my way in the deep , ancient and respectfull forest of chinese culture Edited by Baudelaire on 08 March 2008 at 8:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| solidsnake Diglot Senior Member China Joined 6984 days ago 469 posts - 488 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 6 of 25 08 March 2008 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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You're doing good.
我在吃饭 is translated as "I'm eating." You don't translate rice. 我在吃米饭 "I'm eating rice" “你好！我是法国人,普通话就学了点皮毛而 ,口语还讲得很烂,怎么办？“ in the last sentence 口语 acts as the topic. Asian languages love the Topic-Comment structure which is basically taking the object and putting it at the top of a sentence for a strong rhetoric effect. Think Yoda of star wars. 女儿 : 我会不会去公园？ 妈妈 ：不去，但是你会去学校！ 会= as a modal verb would be used to either indicate a future tense ("will be going to the park") or a learned skill. Since she is asking her mom if its okay to go, it would be more accurate to say "我可不可以去公园" "May I go to the park?" The mom would would probably answer "不行， 但是你可以去学校" which is almost a funny, sarcastic reply, since she's basically saying, "Nope, but you have permission to go to school!" 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Baudelaire Triglot Newbie France tatoeba.org Joined 6049 days ago 30 posts - 32 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishB2, Mandarin Studies: Latin, Shanghainese | Message 7 of 25 09 March 2008 at 5:40am | IP Logged | ||
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ok thanks for the precision
so 会 as a modal verb if i want to express a capability ( like 我会跳舞 ， ？ ） and 可以 to express a permission ／ possibility ( 我可以去中国 ) , true ? ok i also want to know ( i ask many things i know ^^ ) is 你为什么学习中文？ 我在学习中文因为我在有时间 , correct ? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| solidsnake Diglot Senior Member China Joined 6984 days ago 469 posts - 488 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 8 of 25 09 March 2008 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | ||
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可以expresses permission, and 能expresses physical ability.
你能听懂吗？ "Can you understand (what is being said)?" 因为我有空 "Because I have free time" "因为我没事做" "Because I have nothing else better to do" This is kind of a funny answer given as a response to the question "Why are you studying such and such language？" No matter what language you phrase it in. *Note while not a hard and fast rule, Chinese tends to phrase the reason/cause before the answer/effect. This is evidenced in common patterns like "因为。。。所以" This is generally opposite of English phraseology. You are a fast learner, and remind me of how I learned the language myself. Keep up the good work. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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