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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Baudelaire Triglot Newbie France tatoeba.org Joined 6098 days ago 30 posts - 32 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishB2, Mandarin Studies: Latin, Shanghainese | Message 9 of 25 09 March 2008 at 5:17pm | IP Logged |
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ok
i don't really for the moment the difference between 能 and 会 but I think with the time, i will be able to see the nuance ok thanks for explain this patterns , i think in a first time the most important is to learn how to write / pronounce correctly , and learning vocabulary ,and then try to make sentence by chatting with chinese people ( on QQ or with my chinese friends when i'm with them and when they have time to spend on chatting to the poor-tricky-frogs-eater in chinese ) because like that you know when they made sentences , i try to use them ( not the same but you know try to replace some words by another ) after with other people and see if the newly-made sentence is still correct. and don't think i'm learning fast, it's just 因为我有空 ^^ 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| solidsnake Diglot Senior Member China Joined 7033 days ago 469 posts - 488 votes  Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 10 of 25 09 March 2008 at 5:56pm | IP Logged |
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能expresses physical ability, like for instance the ability to lift or hear something.
会expresses a learned or acquired skill, like a foreign language or driving a car. Note the Chinese also extend this usage to that of certain vices like smoking, drinking ,playing cards, etc. Bear in mind, there are quite a few other usages of 会 such as 体会，of which I'm not going into right now. The above refers to distinguishing between modal verbs of ability. A healthy part of your Chinese studies will be devoted to mastering usages and distinguishing between synonyms. It will be at or hopefully before this point that you will need to abandon translating from their quasi-similar English counterparts, as they will do more to confuse you than help you. when you negate 可以it is usually expressed as 不能 or 不行。 能as a modal verb can take another principle verb as its object, 行cannot. 甲：我可以在这儿抽烟吗？ "May I smoke in here?" 乙：不行. ; "Nope." 你不能在这儿抽烟 "You can't smoke in here." 在这儿抽烟不行 "You can't smoke in here./ Smoking in here is not OK." 禁止吸烟 "Smoking is prohibited." 严禁吸烟 "Smoking is strictly prohibited." Let me know if you have more questions Edited by solidsnake on 09 March 2008 at 5:59pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Baudelaire Triglot Newbie France tatoeba.org Joined 6098 days ago 30 posts - 32 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishB2, Mandarin Studies: Latin, Shanghainese | Message 11 of 25 10 March 2008 at 5:50am | IP Logged |
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ok thanks for the precision
but last time my chinese friend says me : 我能借吗 in that case 能 could express also a permission with the same meaning as 可以 ? 我要去中国。 我想看中国。 in this two sentence i will have translate 要and 想 , by "want" , do they have the same meaning and we can replace one by the other as we want or there is a nuance between them ? or is it like in french " desirer " and "vouloir" , they both mean quite the same thing ( want ) and most of the time we don't make a difference but the nuance is that "desirer" is something you want but it's something visceral and "vouloir" is more something conscious edit : ok it's the end of the day , cause of exam in the afternoon and a reunion with my school's directors , i don't have so many time to learn chinese but a little is better than no time at all. I've chat on MSN with one of the chinese students , she said that my chinese begins to become are improving very quickly , i think it's more because we used to be several people in my school who wanted to learn chinese cause of the presence of chinese students ( but i think was the only one to have a really interestin their culture and so on ) and i'm the last to have begin to learn and i'm the only one who is still motivated. I also think it's because as not so many people areinterested in learning their language when someone try to learn they're easaly impressed , and also because they're are very very polite , because i don't think they say that because my chinese is, really, good . ok i've made some sentences and want to know if they're correct 我的句子们正确吗？ （ ＝are my sentences correct ?) 甲 ( 谢谢 for this now my example dialogues seem more authentic ^^) 甲 ： 请问 ，李先生在那里？ 已 ： 他今天在办公室，但是他昨天在家。 edit ok correct sentence is 乙 ：今天他在办公室，但是昨天他在家 hum i also want to know if some of my friend ask me to speak chinese and i want to ask "What can i say? What am i able to say" ( you know in order to use two verb meaning "can" but not with the same nuance ) if i say 我能说什么？我会说什么？ （ i know that for the moment playing with nuance is not something important , and i must focus more on learning vocabulary / basic patterns / pronunciation ) ok i've also learned 还是 today , i think this kind of word are very usefull because they permit you to connect to sentence with a logical link without having to make complex sentence ( if i see well for the moment the basic pattern with 还是 is subject + verb + choice1 还是 choice2 eg : 你喜欢吃水煮蛋还是炒蛋？ or sentence1 还是 sentence2 eg : 他在休息还是在打电话？ (i've noticed that if the subject is the same in sentence1 and 2 we don't repeat it , i'm right ? ) all for today , today still have another exam so lets go to bed 晚安 PS : ok defintly hard to find an hour were i'm wake up and chinese people also ( as when it's 12 AM in Paris it's 19 PM in 北京 ^^ ） Edited by Baudelaire on 11 March 2008 at 5:43pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Baudelaire Triglot Newbie France tatoeba.org Joined 6098 days ago 30 posts - 32 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishB2, Mandarin Studies: Latin, Shanghainese | Message 12 of 25 11 March 2008 at 12:52pm | IP Logged |
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Ok today i gonna to begin to listen to the FSI tapes we can find on their website
there's also a pdf coming with , cool ok the first thing i find not good at all is that we just have pinyin ( but i know it's because the pdf which is published online is coming from a deep past where writting machines were not able to do such characters ) but as it's free and we have audio / text together i have nothing to say , lets try edit : i've begin by "pronunciation and romanisation's tape" tape 1 finished , it was an introduction to tones , no really a problem cause i already know what they teach nonetheless the exercices were interesting, i've just done 8 % of wrong answer about tones , so i think i don't need to review this one tape 2 : quite interesting , i think this part could be very efficient if you doing the exercices of pronunciation with a chinese speaker near you ( unfortunately none are near me ^^) except the last one which is dictation ( 5 % of bad answer , but i think in few days i will do again the last exercices to be sure ) but i think if i don't do many mistakes there it's because in pinyin "a/o/e/i" are pronounced like in french so as i'm a french native speaker it don't need effort to remind their pronunciation . tape 3 : in progress it will be the last one for today , after i will review my vocabulary , try make some dialog using the new words/ hard word . and continue to code for my flashcard programm edit : ok tape 3 finished , but it was the harder one for the moment, making difference and pronounce correctly FSI - Standard Chinese - Resource Module - P&R - Tape 3.mp3(unaspirated "B" ,"D" "G" and aspirated "P" "T" "K" are quite easy to not make them sound as English B D G, P T K , 1% of mistakes for all the exercices ) but try to find if it's "Q" , "ZH" ,"Z" ,"J", "CH" , "C" or "R" is quite challenging for me for the moment ( 25 % of mistakes for this exercice ok all for today , so Today was more focusing on oral speaking / pronunctiation than learning new vocabulary. tomorow i have a completly free day , so i will be able to do some improvement in fluency Edited by Baudelaire on 11 March 2008 at 4:25pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Baudelaire Triglot Newbie France tatoeba.org Joined 6098 days ago 30 posts - 32 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishB2, Mandarin Studies: Latin, Shanghainese | Message 13 of 25 11 March 2008 at 6:55pm | IP Logged |
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ok i would like to go to bed but just before turning off my computer i decide to add a contact on QQ by using the research panel and try to choose randomly somoene
and : i've added a chinese person , who is in France , who has study informatic ( like me ) who speak somewhat a good french ( enough to understand me and to make complex sentence ) and who used to be in the same university in china than some of my classmates , world seems very small somedays ^^ 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| solidsnake Diglot Senior Member China Joined 7033 days ago 469 posts - 488 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 14 of 25 11 March 2008 at 10:46pm | IP Logged |
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Ok in answer to questions..
Consider the following: 想 我想最好先等老板同意 “I think its best to first wait for the boss's approval." 我想看《色，戒〉 “I would like to see Lust, Caution" 我想要交朋友 “I would like to make friends" 认为 我认为他是最聪明的学生 “I consider him the most intelligent student" 以为 我以为他名字叫george,原来是john "I (mistakenly) thought his name was George when its actually been John." 要 我要吃汉堡包! “I want to eat a hamburger!" (child's language) 会。。。的 我明年会到中国去留学的 “I will go to China next year to study abroad." 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Baudelaire Triglot Newbie France tatoeba.org Joined 6098 days ago 30 posts - 32 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishB2, Mandarin Studies: Latin, Shanghainese | Message 15 of 25 12 March 2008 at 3:49pm | IP Logged |
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谢谢您 for this accurate sentence , it really show the difference .
so today what have i done ? hum i'm listened to tape 4 / 5 / and half of the 6th tape about pronuciation , i see now the difference between 去 促 （ in term of sound not of meaning of course ^^, i know i've some brain problem but there are limits ^^) ok i wanted to finish tape 6 but i think to much listening kill the listening , because i just hear and repeat and nothing else , so i will finish it tomotow and now lets review view some vocabulary oh , i've just discover the existence of the HSK , i've dowload on a french website the list of the 八十汉字 people have to know to be able to have the basic HSK , and also another pdf with all the words to know to reach this level so i think in the next few i will write all the characters on a big sheet of paper and each time i discover a character which is in this list and i use it ( or i find it in sentence ) il will put a blue round next to it and when i will be able to write it / pronounce it / and know the meaning without looking to anithing i will put a red round next to it the exam of the HSK in france ( in paris , in other city i don't know) are in May , so i don't think i will be ready in 2 month ,so i will try to do this examn the next year. Ok so now i have a goal to reach and a way to see how near i am to this goal ( just count the number of 蓝色循环 and 红色循环 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Baudelaire Triglot Newbie France tatoeba.org Joined 6098 days ago 30 posts - 32 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishB2, Mandarin Studies: Latin, Shanghainese | Message 16 of 25 13 March 2008 at 4:14pm | IP Logged |
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ok today i've quite review like every day my vocabulary , learn some new words like
我喜欢喝啤酒 你的啤酒好喝吗？ 好喝! i'm currently looking to the first module of the FSI , ok i find really good their approach and put at the beginning all the sentences you will be able to understand / produce at the end of the given module. I've seen that i'm already able too pronounce / understand all the sentence , but i prefer to listen to the tape in order to listen slow-spoken chinese. 同志 I think that combined the two method , chinesepod and FSI together is a good thing. so i will continue to do that edit just finish all the unit 1 , i don't learn any new word ( except 同志 , but i'm not sure this way to call people is nowdays as commonly used as in the 80's ,) but i think thanks to these tape i've made some progress in pronunciation so i think chinesepod will bring me vocabulary , every day life sentences / idiomatics expressions / and oral understanding FSI will be used to more focus on chinese in a more formal way ( grammar and so on ) and will be used to practise my chinese in order to be understand when i speak /edit for the moment i know perfectly around 80 words ( so around 110 / 120 characters ) and able to understand when reading , around 200 words. for the next month i will try to be able to know perfectly 150 - 200 words ( so around 250 characters ) and to be able to understand 300/350 words as i used to have exam this week and the coming one , i think in next weeks i will be able to learn more seriously my chinese Edited by Baudelaire on 13 March 2008 at 6:05pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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