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Transition from MSA to dialects | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| ruskivyetr Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5480 days ago 769 posts - 962 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish, Russian, Polish, Modern Hebrew | Message 1 of 11 20 January 2010 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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I had been wondering about Arabic, as I saw the log of an Arabic learner in the forum. How easy would it be to transition from Modern Standard to a dialect? If instead of learning the dialect from a book after modern standard, you went to that country to learn that variety in an immersion, would you still speak with a hint of modern standard, or would it be possible to fully transition from Modern Standard to a dialect?
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| Al-Irelandi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5534 days ago 111 posts - 177 votes Speaks: English* | Message 2 of 11 21 January 2010 at 5:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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It depends. Many authorities on the Arabic language see 'MSA' and the dialects as registers of the Arabic language/al-Arabiyyah/Al-Fus-haa. And maybe you may end up speaking about some matters or find yourslef in certain formal situations where you find the 'MSA'\Arabic over rides the Arabic dialect you're trying to learn. I mean even Arabs from other countries would still use certain elements of their dialects and the Arabic language when abroad in another country, just due to the mutual intelligibility that they all have.
I personally wouldn't lose too much sleep over it, unless of course that you have specific reasons to not want to slip into 'MSA' which you might wish to share with us? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ruskivyetr Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5480 days ago 769 posts - 962 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish, Russian, Polish, Modern Hebrew | Message 3 of 11 24 January 2010 at 4:21am | IP Logged | ||
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I actually might want to learn Arabic, because I have always wanted to visit Morocco, but I am a bit cautious as I had a train wreck with MSA a few years ago when it just overwhelmed me. This was when I was not as experienced with studying languages. The only reason I ask is because I know grammar is hard in MSA but I don't want to have to start all over again as if studying a new language just because the dialects are so different.
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| Al-Irelandi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5534 days ago 111 posts - 177 votes Speaks: English* | Message 4 of 11 24 January 2010 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | ||
When I studied Arabic, it wasn't the Arabic grammar that I found to be hard (when I compare its few tenses with Spanish's 14 tenses/moods for example), but then again I used to do 6-4 hours, 5 days a week for 5 months Arabic abroad where any issues I had got 'smoothed out' out there. However I can most definitely see the problems it may cause for one who is studying alone or not regularly under supervision. When talking about 'MSA' and not what they call 'Classical' or 'Fus-haa' there may be some problems as there was an attempt to recreate certain compound tenses that traditionally didn't exist in Semitic languages before and that does without a doubt make things a bit more tiresome, where as in Arabic (Classical/Fushaa/literary) the main tenses boil down to 3, past, present and future, in addition to a compound past tense. As for Moroccan, I can personally testify that by knowing the Arabic language to a good standard, ithas helped immensely in my understanding of the Moroccan dialect/variant and even to speak it if so I wished to do so in the future. And as there's not too many materials available in order to study it, knowing Arabic or one of its dialects beforehand will really assist in overcoming the areas in which the language differs from the dialect. But as far as its tenses goes, they are not far off from the Arabic language (some MSA grammars may overcomplicate things as far as tense goes) and studying Arabic (or what is referred to 'MSA' in the West) will likewise provide a good foundation in letting you either A) be prepared to deal with the few resources that are there to study Moroccan or B) go ahead speaking with Moroccans who are kind enough to give you the time to learn their tongue. In a nutshell, I see that the grammar wouldn't pose so much of a problem to one who has pre studied 'MSA', rather one would have to learn to tune in on the differing Moroccan pronunciation and its differing vocabulary\register. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ruskivyetr Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5480 days ago 769 posts - 962 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish, Russian, Polish, Modern Hebrew | Message 5 of 11 24 January 2010 at 5:42pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you al-Irlandee. I guess the reason I failed so many years ago was because I was too young, I had no good resources, and I did not understand many grammatical concepts at all.
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| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6271 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 6 of 11 24 January 2010 at 6:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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I would think it is fairly easy to make the transition. The dialects have much in common with MSA, differing mainly in having simpler grammars and some different sounds and some vocabulary.
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| Al-Irelandi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5534 days ago 111 posts - 177 votes Speaks: English* | Message 7 of 11 24 January 2010 at 6:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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Ruskivyetr, something jogged my mind, so I hereby propose a 'shortcut' if you'd wish to give it a go. FSI have a 'From Eastern To Western Arabic' course click here
The pre-requisite to using it is a knowledge of the Arabic Eastern/Levantine dialect which you could start with by using the relevant Pimsleur Eastern Arabic audio course (and try internalising whats in there) and then try progressing onto using the aforementioned FSI manual. You could always come back and study 'MSA' another day and knowing Moroccan would obviously help. Edited by al-Irlandee on 24 January 2010 at 6:53pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ruskivyetr Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5480 days ago 769 posts - 962 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish, Russian, Polish, Modern Hebrew | Message 8 of 11 24 January 2010 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | ||
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The thing is, I tried that before (going back to MSA after studying a dialect), and I nearly broke down at the amount of grammar that I didn't understand. I think I should just hit two birds with one stone this time, as I don't plan I studying in Morocco for another six years or so, and I think that fully knowing MSA would prepare me for that, as well as giving me access to resources in MSA, that I could use to learn Moroccan. Which by the way, are there such resources?
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