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Slaughtering of English | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5520 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes  Speaks: Swedish* | Message 25 of 37 01 January 2010 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I still don't think that the opinion of the speakers is very relevant. Some speakers of Croatian may feel that it is a separate language, but that is as absurd as calling Finland-Swedish a separate language. The are dialects, and extremely close ones at that.
Not necessarily written English. Many AAVE constructions violate the rules of most, if not all other spoken English dialects.
Actually, that is not what I said at all. I said that the origin of AAVE is a creole, and the English component is derived from a very rudimentary command of English, as found in uneducated slaves. The way I see it, if you take bad English, mix it with various African languages, mix in a bit of proper English and wait a few hundred years, what you will get can never be "good English". It could conceivably be interesting and beautiful, but in my mind, to the extent that you call it a variation of English, it's a bad one. Why not just call it a creole and be happy with that? I might find Pitcairnese beautiful, and it is certainly unique, but it is still a Creole. From your pathos filled description of Martin Luther King and his supposed part in "one of the great struggles of mankind", I take it that this is very emotionally charged for you. Perhaps you are letting that affect your judgment? I mean, seriously speaking, why would it be "racist" to call a language form wrong just because a certain political activist supposedly "rooted" his "oratory" in this language? What kind of argument is that? Anything even remotely connected to black activism is holy? By the way, this is from the book you mention:
Nevermind the content, but in what sense is this Ebonics? It seems pretty un-ebonic to me. PS She said "black" so it's ok for me to call it "black activism". Edited by Gusutafu on 01 January 2010 at 7:14pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| elvisrules Tetraglot Senior Member BelgiumRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5468 days ago 286 posts - 390 votes Speaks: French, English*, Dutch, Flemish Studies: Lowland Scots, Japanese, German | Message 26 of 37 01 January 2010 at 7:19pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I was using sarcasm for effect, not trolling. And I didn't mean the modern German language, but 'Germanic'. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Woodpecker Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5810 days ago 351 posts - 590 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written), Arabic (Egyptian) Studies: Arabic (classical) | Message 27 of 37 01 January 2010 at 7:26pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Angelou, like everyone I mentioned, was perfectly capable of code-switching, and did so on occasion because she understood well the power of both of her dialects of English, but she did do most writing in standard English. On further reflection, a better example would be Langston Hughes, who was a true master of the register switch.
Henceforth, I am not going to engage in these sorts of discussions. Many Europeans clearly do not have a very good grasp of race relations and their history in the United States, and that's not a problem I have time or the energy to try to correct. It's unfortunate that it comes through so much in the form of linguistic supremacism. Again, given the racially-charged content of this thread, I think it should be locked, but either way I will not be posting again. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| datsunking1 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5584 days ago 1014 posts - 1533 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Russian, Dutch, French | Message 28 of 37 01 January 2010 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Wow I had no idea this thread would become a warzone! Calm down people, I was just pointing out the common place that poor grammar and English has taken in our society.
It baffles me that even with poor grammar and usages, someone can still be understood by the masses, correctly. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but lets keep the racism, fighting, etc to a minimum. We're supposed to be a civilized forum of educated and dedicated language learners! -Jordan 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5520 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes Speaks: Swedish* | Message 29 of 37 01 January 2010 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
This may be true, but that is hardly relevant in this case. We are talking about language, not race. The skin colour of the speakers is not even a side issue, it is irrelevant. If you want to lecture us on how you used to treat Black people in America, this is not the place. OldAccountBroke's comments are more relevant, except his opinion on the term Creole. Sure, you may say that English was formed as a creole, though probably not by speakers with so little knowledge of the base language, as so much of PIE is still left in OE. But still, this only serves to enhance my case, because English IS considered a separate language. Mind you, I am not saying that AAVE is necessarily inferior in the grand scheme of things (although I am not dismissing the possibility to deem languages inferior or superior), I am just saying that IF you see Ebonics as a form of English, it's a very ugly one. Considered as a separate language, it may be just fine. However, in most cases discussed here I don't see how AAVE even enters the picture. The speech of rappers and would-be-gangstas surely isn't AAVE, is it? Because as far as I can see (and I have bought about a thousand hip-hop records in my day) they just take normal English, talk very offensively and boastfully and disregards conjugations and generally mess it up, there are no African words there, are there? 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5520 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes Speaks: Swedish* | Message 31 of 37 01 January 2010 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
No, not this post (which is not very enlightening), rather the one about creoles and the origins of English! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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