|
 |
"If I were" vs. "If I was" | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| jae Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5663 days ago 206 posts - 239 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Latin Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, French | Message 1 of 30 04 January 2010 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
What is the correct usage for these two phrases? I'm a native English speaker, however, I have never been quite clear on this point. Is the first (with "were") for situations that are not likely, and the second (with "was") is for situations that could actually arise? Thanks for your help :)
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6010 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 2 of 30 04 January 2010 at 3:15pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
Well, first up, you can technically use "if I was..." all the time without error, but not so with "if I were..."
But... Always use "if I was" if talking about an unknown past: "If I was there, I must have had too much to drink because I can't remember being there." Hypothetical present (something impossible or highly unlikely) takes the subjunctive, so you can say either old style "If I were you (=right now, at the momnent, currently), I would run!" or new style (subjunctive mood lost) "If I was you (=right now, at the momnent, currently), I would run!" A possible or likely present has to use a present tense. "Your are the winner." "If I am the winner, does that mean I get a prize?" Edited by OldAccountBroke on 04 January 2010 at 3:16pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Sprachjunge Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 7164 days ago 368 posts - 548 votes Speaks: English*, GermanC2 Studies: Spanish, Russian | Message 3 of 30 04 January 2010 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
I am probably a fuddy-duddy (a 23-year-old fuddy-duddy, the worst kind), and the subjunctive is in fact almost dead (There was a time when it was correct to say "If he have the time, he will meet with you."). Nonetheless, I would say that there are at least two cases where it is still NOT technically correct to use the indicative instead of the subjunctive mood, and one where it's a toss-up (but I bet you can guess which one I prefer :).
The first one that still requires the subjunctive can be summarized as "contrary to fact:" If I were you (but I'm not), I would/should give up the contest. If she were you (but she's not), she wouldn't do that. The second case requiring the subjunctive is "making a wish:" I wish I were a millionaire. He wishes you were here. The third where I think you can definitely stand your ground and say, NO, current usage gives me the choice, and I'm taking the indicative, is expressing a suggestion or a command (as opposed to a wish): Subjunctive: I suggest that he work full time in the future. It is imperative that the play begin at once. No subjunctive: I suggest that he works full time in the future. It is imperative that the play begins at once. I would say definitely use the subjunctive in the first two cases. First, "If I was you, I wouldn't..." I'm sorry, doesn't that just sound wrong? Second, as you notice, current use of the English subjunctive is restricted to the third-person with all verbs except "to be," and even then, it's only the first, second, and third person that change! (If I were, if you were, if he were). "If we were" and "If they were" are identical to the past indicative. So, there are only three forms that you really have to memorize, and only two cases where educated speakers still require that you use it. I would say, do it! 8 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| daristani Senior Member United States Joined 7143 days ago 752 posts - 1661 votes Studies: Uzbek | Message 4 of 30 04 January 2010 at 4:01pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
I'm with Sprachjunge on this; "If I was you, I would run" sounds completely illiterate to me.
As for Sprachjunge's third category, I think there's a distinction between British and American usage on this, with the more conservative (at least in this respect) American dialect having retained the present subjunctive that British English has largely lost. One example I recall seeing somewhere is: American: I insist that he be compensated. British: I insist that he should/must be compensated. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| datsunking1 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5584 days ago 1014 posts - 1533 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Russian, Dutch, French | Message 5 of 30 04 January 2010 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
I agree, "If I was you, I would run." sounds entirely improper.
I would say "If I were you, I would run." I think it can be used either way, being a native there are something that sound incorrect but you can't PROVE that they are. "I wish I were I were there with you when that happened." "I wish I was at that party when that happened." They sound correct to me but I'm not sure. Can somebody shed some light on this? English has become such a grammatical blur for me, I don't know whats wrong and what's right... because many people speak so poorly. Help? :D -Jordan 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Jimmymac Senior Member United Kingdom strange-lands.com/le Joined 6152 days ago 276 posts - 362 votes Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, French | Message 6 of 30 04 January 2010 at 5:22pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I agree with everyting that has been written, however, to make things slightly more annoying for the English learner there are regional variations. In my native city, Newcastle Upon Tyne, we can happily say 'if I was you, I would ....'. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6010 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 7 of 30 04 January 2010 at 5:40pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Well if we're playing pedantry... I believe "meet with someone" is a neologism in English, calqued in from other immigrant tongues into US English, so it's unlikely both halves of your sentence were ever simultaneously correct... ;-)
I grew up saying "if I was you". My whole community said it. My mum tried to "correct" me and my brothers and sisters when we said it at home, but that was just how we spoke. Check Google: it returns over 45 million hits for "if I was you" and only 2.5 million for "If I were you". The most common form must be considered the "rule", the less common form the "accepted variant".
I can quote Google again (223 million "I wish I was", vs 33 million "I wish I were") and I can quote some very famous songs: "I wish I was in Carrickfergus". "I was I was in Dixie, away! away!" Both of these occur in both "was" and "were" forms, but I'm used to hearing "was" most of the time. (Elvis sang "was" in Dixie, and major artists like the Dubliners sing "was" in Carrickfergus.)
This isn't really a choice -- practically no-one uses this subjunctive any more (it's far less than the 10% and 15% for the "was/were" choice). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Sprachjunge Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 7164 days ago 368 posts - 548 votes Speaks: English*, GermanC2 Studies: Spanish, Russian | Message 8 of 30 04 January 2010 at 7:32pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
Oldaccountbroke, don't get offended. I wasn't attacking your use (or non-use). People speak the way they speak. But this was a native English speaker asking what the rules were. And those are pretty much the rules. I defy you to say that you would write "If I was you, I would..." Or that you would write (or even say, to be honest) "I wish you was here."
Here's something important: The fact of the matter is, when speaking, no one really cares. You can say what you want. So when a language learner or native speaker asks for a rule, my tendency is to give what would be correct in writing--unless the person specifically asks otherwise. PS Two tiny piques: "This isn't really a choice..." Um, it certainly is. I myself was taught to say "I suggest that he work full time in the future," for instance, and I don't come from an especially educated or upper-class American family. Second, "If he have the time, he will meet with you" is an example sentence straight out of "The New Webster's Grammar Guide" over 5 editions spanning 1955-1992, so it most certainly described "simultaneous" standard American usage for almost 50 years. Edit: Or rather, what a bunch of American grammarians thought was "simultaneously correct" for roughly 50 years. To my ear, it sounds weird! ;) Edited by Sprachjunge on 04 January 2010 at 7:36pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
