|
 |
"If I were" vs. "If I was" | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6010 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes  Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 17 of 30 05 January 2010 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | ||
|
Sennin,
Think about it though: a thousand years ago, there were 6 conjugations for person in the present tense. Now there is only two conjugations by person for lexical verbs, semi-auxiliary "do" and auxiliary "have" in the present perfect and only one for true auxiliaries, although "be" has three conjugations. In the past simple, the only verb that conjugates for person is "to be", with only two conjugations. There is no consistency in the few conjugations that remain: "I was" uses the singular conjugation (as used in "he/she/it was") but present tense verbs use the plural conjugation for first person ("I do" is the same as "they do", not "he does"). English wants rid of its conjugations and has been trying to kill them off for a thousand years. In fact, it had all but succeeded (read stuff from the Restoration period in English history and you'll see "we was" used in high literature= but it was the deferral of teachers to grammar books as the source of "proper" language that saw the trend briefly reversed. The reason grammar isn´t taught in many English speaking schools these days is precise because of the perverse notion that "correct" grammar is this way of speaking that nobody speaks. If we adjust our notion of grammar to be a description of how people do speak, then grammar becomes a more relevant subject. If, on the other hand, you pick an arbitrary point in history and insist that English should be spoken the way they spoke then, then verily sall I set my ee upon a tyme long syne and say unto thee that twere better we spake English like as twas spake then. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Journeyer Triglot Senior Member United States tristan85.blogspot.c Joined 6867 days ago 946 posts - 1110 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, German Studies: Sign Language | Message 18 of 30 05 January 2010 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | ||
|
I am going to go out and say that I don't usually mind variations of grammar by native speakers, even if it's "incorrect" according to the guidelines of prescriptive grammar. I don't recommend that second-language learn them with their first crack at the language, but because languages grow and evolve and have dialects (ie, are living) I am cautious to call anything "incorrect" if its in accordance to region. For example, "Don't make me no never mind" is something not spoken where I live, and I had to read it a couple of times to understand it, but within a group of speakers, I think it could be similar to dialect.
Similarly, the differences in dialects in German stand apart from what is used in Standard High German, but within the dialects, they follow consistent rules. It's not that the speakers are uneducated necessarily. To use myself as an example I'm a native English-speaking college graduate and have spent many many hours studying various grammars, yet I still say "Look at them cars" instead of "those cars" or "he don't know" instead of "he doesn't know". It's not that I don't know the differences or cannot use them; indeed in certain settings I do use them (for example, professional settings), but it's not what is "native" to me. I'm not saying you shouldn't use the subjunctive (or whatever may be in question), but I think that the variations with language are what make it expressive and beautiful, not necessarily wrong. I wouldn't want everyone to sound the same. Edited by Journeyer on 05 January 2010 at 2:28pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6581 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 19 of 30 05 January 2010 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | ||
|
There's usually just one "correct" form, while there are many "incorrect" forms. Using a single form all the time is ... well, boring. I want to be able to express myself with color and variety. I'm usually aware of the "correct" form and I do say "If I were you" unless I'm consciously trying to change it up. However, I do want to change it up, and depending on circumstances, I'll use both forms. Sticking to one "correct" form will make your language dull. I'm totally adding "That don't make me no never mind" to my vocabulary. It's awesomecakes.
The most commonly used form is the most commonly used form. Other forms are more appropriate in certain situations. Language learners striving for fluency need to learn all the common forms. As for which to learn first, it depends on what situations they are likely to find themselves in (learning the language for work or for travel?) and whether they are more worried about sounding uneducated or uninteresting. There's no such thing as "correct" and "incorrect" grammar. That's a lie concocted by the Language Teacher Illuminati. There's just "appropriate" and "inappropriate" and it depends on the situation. Sure, there's a lot of stuff that's never appropriate, but you'll rarely if ever find a "most commonly used form" in that category. 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ZeroTX Groupie United States Joined 6134 days ago 91 posts - 100 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 20 of 30 05 January 2010 at 6:10pm | IP Logged | ||
|
*rolleyes* @ Ari
3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Journeyer Triglot Senior Member United States tristan85.blogspot.c Joined 6867 days ago 946 posts - 1110 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, German Studies: Sign Language | Message 21 of 30 05 January 2010 at 6:14pm | IP Logged | ||
|
Well said, Ari.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jimmymac Senior Member United Kingdom strange-lands.com/le Joined 6152 days ago 276 posts - 362 votes Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, French | Message 22 of 30 05 January 2010 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | ||
|
I second that. Well said Ari
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| sydneycarton Newbie United Kingdom Joined 5507 days ago 23 posts - 46 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 23 of 30 07 January 2010 at 11:35am | IP Logged | ||
That's a very common error in the north of England - both in written and spoken form. Ask the average GCSE student in Britain and he or she won't know the difference between a verb, a noun, an adverb, an adjective, a pronoun and so on. It's simply not taught here. The reason is that English is so flexible and almost completely lacks declension - people don't need to know when a word is acting as an adverb or an adjective. The problem is as somebody else said; it puts us at a disadvantage when we're learning a foreign language in which these concepts matter more. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| PicturesAre Diglot Newbie United States Joined 5448 days ago 13 posts - 16 votes Speaks: English*, Haitian Creole Studies: Tok Pisin, Spanish, Mandarin | Message 24 of 30 07 January 2010 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | ||
|
Eh, I'm of the school of thought that it's only an error if the intended meaning is wrong.
Every other "error" is merely language change. If you would like to have a further discussion of correct grammar usage, I suggest we switch to proto-indo-european, the only TRUE unbastardized version of this language. 1 person has voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
