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"If I were" vs. "If I was" | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6010 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes  Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 25 of 30 07 January 2010 at 6:02pm | IP Logged | ||
Oh, you young upstart revisionists. I still say that PIE, proto-Semitic and proto-Turkic have a common ancestor, and I won't settle for anything other than the true mother tongue! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ZeroTX Groupie United States Joined 6134 days ago 91 posts - 100 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 26 of 30 07 January 2010 at 8:20pm | IP Logged | ||
I disagree. Once it's codified, then the proper version is that codified version. I dare say that there are indeed books codifying what is or is not correct English grammar, including the variations of correct forms. Outside of that, it's bastardization based on lack of education. I refuse to accept that black American ebonics or deep south poor white slang is correct just because both parties understand it. If we want to go that route, let's name these dialects, but keep them out of the realm of what is true, proper, educated English. -Z 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6010 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 27 of 30 07 January 2010 at 9:01pm | IP Logged | ||
Who codified the language, how and why? Who did they ask? If I write a book of laws, if I codify a system of legal conduct, are you obliged to adhere to it? No, because you and society did not grant me the power to write a binding set of rules. Prescriptive grammar books are written by self-appointed guardians of language. In a democracy they have no right to impose their views on me; particularly any codified grammar is based on the dialect of the author. This sets up an immediate prejudice in society towards valuing those most like the author -- it creates a self-selected elite and a self-perpetuating myth of superiority: From I speak correctly it follows that Speaking like me is a sign of intelligence. It is likely that My children speak like me so I conclude that my children are intelligent. On the other hand the poor/foreign/coloured/otherwise-different kids down the road speak different from me from which we conclude that Poor/foreign/coloured/otherwise-different people are less intelligent than people like me. And society's a lot poorer for that type of thought. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ZeroTX Groupie United States Joined 6134 days ago 91 posts - 100 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 28 of 30 07 January 2010 at 10:10pm | IP Logged | ||
They are not less intelligent, but they do demonstrate that they are less educated or perhaps poorly educated. In the same sense that my mother, who is from the hills of Alabama, knows exactly how to switch back and forth between educated speech (e.g. what she learned earning two college degrees) and hillbilly slang and twang. There's a difference. One is right and one isn't. She knows that. The difference is that most of the hillbillies don't. They're not stupid, though, they're just uneducated. -Z 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6010 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 29 of 30 08 January 2010 at 12:29am | IP Logged | ||
Stop and think about it. Let's consider two unrelated languages, English and Kuria (a Kenyan tribal language, chosen at random for the sake of argument). Now English is the main language of education in Kenya. For Kenyans, does speaking English well demonstrate good education? Well... no. There are native English speakers in Kenya, and their children can learn English without ever having anything approaching what we would describe as an education. The children of (predominantly white) English speakers will most likely have a more fluent command of English than anyone from the Kuri tribe does, regardless of the amount of education, although the Kuri child will have the chance to develop a wider repertoire in terms of register. But put the Kuri child in the same class as a white Kenyan child through all levels of education and the white kid will come out with better English because he started with better English. Measuring education by level of English discriminates in favour of the white kid. The differences between dialects of English are certainly not as pronounced as between Kuri and English, but chosing one dialect as a sign of good education certainly favours the native speakers of that dialect, even if to a lesser extent. That ain't right! So well done to your mum for working hard, but a big "boo hiss" to the system for forcing her to work harder than for the middle-class city dudes who got the language for free. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6436 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 30 of 30 11 January 2010 at 1:57am | IP Logged | ||
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I am enjoying this thread. I always said "If I were..." but I was never entirely sure if that was correct or not.
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