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zenmonkey Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6495 days ago 803 posts - 1119 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English^C2, Spanish, French, German Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew	Message 9 of 16 02 November 2007 at 5:15am \| IP Logged
	Off to a bad start on vocab learning: - lost a day - my flash card program is polluted with case pronouns and prepositions whcih I tried to learn this way, not a good method. I think I will move that back to tables and paper I've been focusing on English-German vocab building however, when I first started working on German, my "match" language - the language that naturally came to mind (not the right one!) was French - I seem to have a French accent, and when I "cross-over" I have French words that come out. I will try to break this further by working on vocab across the 4 languages - although I am not sure about how to do this... question word in one, answer workd in the other 3? Does anyone else do something like this? And I've decided that I will add Italian as the next one - let's say I need an easy target language after German... Edited by zenmonkey on 02 November 2007 at 5:18am 1 person has voted this message useful
zenmonkey Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6495 days ago 803 posts - 1119 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English^C2, Spanish, French, German Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew	Message 10 of 16 14 November 2007 at 11:23pm \| IP Logged
	Quick post: The MT CDs are helping a lot - I've gone thru 4-8 at least twice over the last weeks. More interesting than LSI but I still lose focus at times in the car. My daughters still complain about them but less. They get the idea. Vocab learning is so slow - currently have about 300 words in the program and I think I must know around 500-600 words. Just blocking the time for systematic word learning is an issue. Need to think about my methods here. Running thru flash cards is not efficient. 1 person has voted this message useful
zenmonkey Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6495 days ago 803 posts - 1119 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English^C2, Spanish, French, German Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew	Message 11 of 16 17 November 2007 at 9:27am \| IP Logged
	I think I have found a better method of working my vocabulary that involves phrases, flashcards and group learning. First off, rote memorisation of words with my flashcard program was not working for me - too much work, no fun and some words just failed to enter my head. I was simply running through the cards. Slow down to learn and think about how you learn. So I now have two methods I am trying to stick with to learn words: First, the most interesting - I pull a text with the short audio (about 2 min) off of DW: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/0,2142,2055,00.html and copy it into Word and print copies for myself and my study partners (wife and 2 oldest girls). We then listen to audio a couple of times. We each go through the text alone and highlight the words we don't know; these are are target words for the day, together we see if we can figure them out or we look them up in the Leo dictionary (French-German for the girls). We then listen to audio a couple of times again. All the words we don't know, we've put into Memosyne and go through those cards until we have them learned. For words that we have difficulty with, we write them down as well as the phrase that uses them (contextual learning, hopefully). Once we have learned them, we relisten to the text a couple of times and discuss it,mostly in French (the girls find it too frustrating in German). This brings in 30-40 words in an hour and a half of funwork. Second, working alone, rather than working on single words, I read the phrases that include the target word in Basic German Vocabulary with the English translation covered and see if I can get a meaning, uncover English, and work on learing the word (5 column writing and learning as someone posted). Now, only after I have learned the words do they go into the flash card software, sometimes a couple of days afterwards, more time learning smarter, seems to take less time than the flashcard drudge. Looking at the the words I already know or the number of words I do not underline in a text, I am beginning to suspect that we have moved beyond beginning to intermediate levels and that our vocab is well greater than a couple of hundred words I posted before. Not so surprising after 6 months for myself of heavy (but poorly thought out) work and 3 years of school learning for my oldest daughter and wife. Edited by zenmonkey on 17 November 2007 at 9:29am 1 person has voted this message useful
zenmonkey Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6495 days ago 803 posts - 1119 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English^C2, Spanish, French, German Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew	Message 12 of 16 19 November 2007 at 12:02am \| IP Logged
	we'll we've done two texts over the weekend together (more or less) and generated 90 cards - My oldest clearly has a better memory as she learns them faster and with less effort (Litfasssäule at a glance, not the most useful word). After running once through those I have forgotten, I need to pause and relearn them by reviewing our texts, not just running through the cards over and over. Edited by zenmonkey on 19 November 2007 at 12:03am 1 person has voted this message useful
zenmonkey Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6495 days ago 803 posts - 1119 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English^C2, Spanish, French, German Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew	Message 13 of 16 21 November 2007 at 2:55am \| IP Logged
	Yesterday was a full day of German powerpoint presentations in eMarketing. By the end of the day I had some flow and understood the subject well, a few details escape but am capturing enough to not be an embarrassment. small Yeah! On the other hand evening class was a catastrophe (really) we rushed a bit through the exercises and I felt lost and needing to revisit these lessons. Our work text on my industry created no joy. Edited by zenmonkey on 21 November 2007 at 2:56am 1 person has voted this message useful
zenmonkey Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6495 days ago 803 posts - 1119 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English^C2, Spanish, French, German Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew	Message 14 of 16 23 November 2007 at 4:42pm \| IP Logged
	German lesson with a lot of flexibility and open discussions - Heute war meine Sprachkurse über Kunst und Müll; aber nicht zusammen. - reading Die Vorleser for vocabulary building - still stuck on about 10 words a page. Still drilling in the car with Michael Thomas - I now understand the method of mixing tenses, etc. which is quite good - will certainly use this for the next languages - yes I am addicted. 1 person has voted this message useful
zenmonkey Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6495 days ago 803 posts - 1119 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English^C2, Spanish, French, German Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew	Message 15 of 16 20 February 2008 at 8:43am \| IP Logged
	New 2 week Super Intensive class with the Geothe Institute - I have clearly advanced as am feel in the top half of this class which is now two levels above the last class. Must be doing something right. Still need to work massively on vocabulary even though these classes tend to focus on speaking and grammar. I think we are in shock with adjectives. rot, rote, roten, roter. und Konjunktiv 2. Edited by zenmonkey on 20 February 2008 at 8:43am 1 person has voted this message useful
zenmonkey Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6495 days ago 803 posts - 1119 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English^C2, Spanish, French, German Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew	Message 16 of 16 21 February 2008 at 3:29pm \| IP Logged
	Ok, finally got around to using Iversen's method for lists - wow, does this work!!! As I had a hard time finding it, here it is again --- Grab a cuppa, here you go: You need a list of words you want to learn, say a 1000 words or so, that you can pick up either off the Internet or many vocab building books exist. a) fold a piece of paper in 4. b) Take 5-7 target words and write them down. Just the target words (German for me). c) Look at the meaning for those words, try to put them, without writing anything down, in a sentence. d)When you know the meaning of all these words, write down the source words. Your paper should now look somewhat like this: Kessel kettle Korb basket Wäsche laundry Weckel alarm Wasserhahn faucet e) now review each word pair and assure yourself that you can write the target word (spell it, or air write it) Go through all the words, without writing anything down. Once you think you know all the words, cover the target words with a paper, leaving only the right column. f) Now write the target words from the source column. Don't peek! If you miss one, it is fine, go back a step. g) Go to the next set of words, once you cover your 1/4 sheet move to the next 1/4 sheet. 2 or 3 days later briefly review to assure long term memorization. Keep those sheets. From here:http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts. asp?TID=5307 http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=5307 Edited by zenmonkey on 21 February 2008 at 3:29pm 1 person has voted this message useful

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zenmonkey Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6495 days ago 803 posts - 1119 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English^C2, Spanish, French, German Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew	Message 9 of 16 02 November 2007 at 5:15am \| IP Logged
	Off to a bad start on vocab learning: - lost a day - my flash card program is polluted with case pronouns and prepositions whcih I tried to learn this way, not a good method. I think I will move that back to tables and paper I've been focusing on English-German vocab building however, when I first started working on German, my "match" language - the language that naturally came to mind (not the right one!) was French - I seem to have a French accent, and when I "cross-over" I have French words that come out. I will try to break this further by working on vocab across the 4 languages - although I am not sure about how to do this... question word in one, answer workd in the other 3? Does anyone else do something like this? And I've decided that I will add Italian as the next one - let's say I need an easy target language after German... Edited by zenmonkey on 02 November 2007 at 5:18am 1 person has voted this message useful
zenmonkey Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6495 days ago 803 posts - 1119 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English^C2, Spanish, French, German Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew	Message 10 of 16 14 November 2007 at 11:23pm \| IP Logged
	Quick post: The MT CDs are helping a lot - I've gone thru 4-8 at least twice over the last weeks. More interesting than LSI but I still lose focus at times in the car. My daughters still complain about them but less. They get the idea. Vocab learning is so slow - currently have about 300 words in the program and I think I must know around 500-600 words. Just blocking the time for systematic word learning is an issue. Need to think about my methods here. Running thru flash cards is not efficient. 1 person has voted this message useful
zenmonkey Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6495 days ago 803 posts - 1119 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English^C2, Spanish, French, German Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew	Message 11 of 16 17 November 2007 at 9:27am \| IP Logged
	I think I have found a better method of working my vocabulary that involves phrases, flashcards and group learning. First off, rote memorisation of words with my flashcard program was not working for me - too much work, no fun and some words just failed to enter my head. I was simply running through the cards. Slow down to learn and think about how you learn. So I now have two methods I am trying to stick with to learn words: First, the most interesting - I pull a text with the short audio (about 2 min) off of DW: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/0,2142,2055,00.html and copy it into Word and print copies for myself and my study partners (wife and 2 oldest girls). We then listen to audio a couple of times. We each go through the text alone and highlight the words we don't know; these are are target words for the day, together we see if we can figure them out or we look them up in the Leo dictionary (French-German for the girls). We then listen to audio a couple of times again. All the words we don't know, we've put into Memosyne and go through those cards until we have them learned. For words that we have difficulty with, we write them down as well as the phrase that uses them (contextual learning, hopefully). Once we have learned them, we relisten to the text a couple of times and discuss it,mostly in French (the girls find it too frustrating in German). This brings in 30-40 words in an hour and a half of funwork. Second, working alone, rather than working on single words, I read the phrases that include the target word in Basic German Vocabulary with the English translation covered and see if I can get a meaning, uncover English, and work on learing the word (5 column writing and learning as someone posted). Now, only after I have learned the words do they go into the flash card software, sometimes a couple of days afterwards, more time learning smarter, seems to take less time than the flashcard drudge. Looking at the the words I already know or the number of words I do not underline in a text, I am beginning to suspect that we have moved beyond beginning to intermediate levels and that our vocab is well greater than a couple of hundred words I posted before. Not so surprising after 6 months for myself of heavy (but poorly thought out) work and 3 years of school learning for my oldest daughter and wife. Edited by zenmonkey on 17 November 2007 at 9:29am 1 person has voted this message useful
zenmonkey Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6495 days ago 803 posts - 1119 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English^C2, Spanish, French, German Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew	Message 12 of 16 19 November 2007 at 12:02am \| IP Logged
	we'll we've done two texts over the weekend together (more or less) and generated 90 cards - My oldest clearly has a better memory as she learns them faster and with less effort (Litfasssäule at a glance, not the most useful word). After running once through those I have forgotten, I need to pause and relearn them by reviewing our texts, not just running through the cards over and over. Edited by zenmonkey on 19 November 2007 at 12:03am 1 person has voted this message useful
zenmonkey Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6495 days ago 803 posts - 1119 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English^C2, Spanish, French, German Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew	Message 13 of 16 21 November 2007 at 2:55am \| IP Logged
	Yesterday was a full day of German powerpoint presentations in eMarketing. By the end of the day I had some flow and understood the subject well, a few details escape but am capturing enough to not be an embarrassment. small Yeah! On the other hand evening class was a catastrophe (really) we rushed a bit through the exercises and I felt lost and needing to revisit these lessons. Our work text on my industry created no joy. Edited by zenmonkey on 21 November 2007 at 2:56am 1 person has voted this message useful
zenmonkey Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6495 days ago 803 posts - 1119 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English^C2, Spanish, French, German Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew	Message 14 of 16 23 November 2007 at 4:42pm \| IP Logged
	German lesson with a lot of flexibility and open discussions - Heute war meine Sprachkurse über Kunst und Müll; aber nicht zusammen. - reading Die Vorleser for vocabulary building - still stuck on about 10 words a page. Still drilling in the car with Michael Thomas - I now understand the method of mixing tenses, etc. which is quite good - will certainly use this for the next languages - yes I am addicted. 1 person has voted this message useful
zenmonkey Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6495 days ago 803 posts - 1119 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English^C2, Spanish, French, German Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew	Message 15 of 16 20 February 2008 at 8:43am \| IP Logged
	New 2 week Super Intensive class with the Geothe Institute - I have clearly advanced as am feel in the top half of this class which is now two levels above the last class. Must be doing something right. Still need to work massively on vocabulary even though these classes tend to focus on speaking and grammar. I think we are in shock with adjectives. rot, rote, roten, roter. und Konjunktiv 2. Edited by zenmonkey on 20 February 2008 at 8:43am 1 person has voted this message useful
zenmonkey Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6495 days ago 803 posts - 1119 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English^C2, Spanish, French, German Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew	Message 16 of 16 21 February 2008 at 3:29pm \| IP Logged
	Ok, finally got around to using Iversen's method for lists - wow, does this work!!! As I had a hard time finding it, here it is again --- Grab a cuppa, here you go: You need a list of words you want to learn, say a 1000 words or so, that you can pick up either off the Internet or many vocab building books exist. a) fold a piece of paper in 4. b) Take 5-7 target words and write them down. Just the target words (German for me). c) Look at the meaning for those words, try to put them, without writing anything down, in a sentence. d)When you know the meaning of all these words, write down the source words. Your paper should now look somewhat like this: Kessel kettle Korb basket Wäsche laundry Weckel alarm Wasserhahn faucet e) now review each word pair and assure yourself that you can write the target word (spell it, or air write it) Go through all the words, without writing anything down. Once you think you know all the words, cover the target words with a paper, leaving only the right column. f) Now write the target words from the source column. Don't peek! If you miss one, it is fine, go back a step. g) Go to the next set of words, once you cover your 1/4 sheet move to the next 1/4 sheet. 2 or 3 days later briefly review to assure long term memorization. Keep those sheets. From here:http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts. asp?TID=5307 http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=5307 Edited by zenmonkey on 21 February 2008 at 3:29pm 1 person has voted this message useful