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Why programs stop your fluency | ||
Tags: Fluency | Learning Strategy | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| healing332 Senior Member United States Joined 5626 days ago 164 posts - 211 votes  | Message 1 of 47 08 July 2009 at 11:28pm | IP Logged |
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I am the poster of how I learned Spanish in 4 months...I detailed how I did it in that post. I wanted to give a real life example which just happened 35 minutes and why Language program will stop your road to fluency. I have only been using and living as a Scandanavian for about 2 weeks..I posted my first real email with Scania words that I sent today..I speak my new language on day 1.(see the Spanish in 4 months thread on how to do this.
Well..I have discovered lingq..Assmil..Rosseta Stone just last week due to this site..and would never use any of these programs..to me they stop your road to fluency!.. Example: Today I am in New York on my way to the airport to Florida for work..I stop in a Starbucks and see 2 beautiful Scania looking girls.10 minutes later i am leaving and so are they..3 times i went up to scania looking girls last week and i ask Ar du "svensk" I was wrong all 3 times..Holland..Poland..and Germany.. I was wrong but the girls love when you try to speak their language Flash forward as the 2 girls leave Starbucks today I walk by really fast and say a little loud without looking at them Ursakta! .. now these girls stare at me with big eyes( I hit the jackpot!).. I do not look scania..they smile and say..im sorry i thought I heard my language..I say "Ar du svensk" now these gorgeous girls are smiling and asking ..How do you know my language!!!..I explain in English that i am just learning for 2 weeks ..we spoke for 10 minutes right in the street of New York..I used many Svenska words with my English..they are shocked! Here is where I feel language programs stop you..I had just been reading lingq just for fun earlier and they teach you to say "Please to meet you"..well.. i use this to the girls(it just slipped out..i do not use programs) and they start laughing! I ask what is wrong..they say i am wrong ..sa I ask them the correct way to say it and they even write it in my new Svenska bok I am reading and They say "Trevligt att traffas" is how you say this..This is why I do not use programs This is why I love movies..(see the Spanish post on how i used it to learn Spanish in 4 months)..movies don't lie!..they are up to date and use real words.. Now Lingq is good..i see it as a super pimpleur but i would use it only to listen to their real conversations NOT their lessons!! Well I do a little research and see that little old free FSI had the same words as these girls! FSI is the only program I would use for "schooling" but i used no program to learn Spanish..why FSI?.. it is free and i like the little old lady who teaches the scandanavian language Pimpluer I would use for fun NOT for study and only free in the library..Pimpluer would be my my little I am bored..bad movie..why I looked them up and they used "Hur star de till"..my friend vicky send me an email and says ..Hur mor du?..she emails me that I am right but only her grandmother would use that..very formal..I know this was wrong and even had it written down as wrong in my notes! from the first time I heard it..why..because I had not hear one person say it after 5 svenska modern movies.. I would not use Rosetta stone even for free..pictures..words..headphones..speech recognition?..yelling at the screen? Those 2 scania girls heard my speech recognition and their laughing told me what was wrong..not a computer screen I have only been using Scandanavian language for 2 weeks and am going really well..I speak it daily to those who do not understand...i just started and I sent my first part scania email which i posted in the Spanish thread..not bad for only 2 weeks i feel. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5772 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 2 of 47 08 July 2009 at 11:44pm | IP Logged |
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But the girls don't like me. :'(
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| healing332 Senior Member United States Joined 5626 days ago 164 posts - 211 votes | Message 3 of 47 08 July 2009 at 11:46pm | IP Logged |
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Thank goodness i did not know of ANY of these programs when i learned Spanish..
Can Imagine Kato Lomb who learned 14 languages and hebrew at age 80 just from books in the foreign language with no translation ..sitting with headphone yelling at a screen like the Rosetta stone program and asking the computer if you are wrong or right? I spoke my Scania language to about 10 people today from the mailman to the girls in Starbucks..they do not have to understasnd..just speak 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| dmg Diglot Senior Member Canada dgryski.blogspot.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 7017 days ago 555 posts - 605 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Dutch, Esperanto | Message 4 of 47 09 July 2009 at 12:18am | IP Logged |
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Laoshu505000 also preaches getting to output very quickly, although for him it's in complete sentences with connectors rather than individual words. I suppose the issue comes when dealing with a language that has a substantially different grammatical structure than English. It sounds like your approach would have difficulties with languages where there isn't a 1-1 mapping, or where (for example) the word order isn't SVO.
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| Ashley_Victrola Senior Member United States Joined 5712 days ago 416 posts - 429 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, Romanian | Message 5 of 47 09 July 2009 at 12:45am | IP Logged |
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Just a quick q, why do you keep saying Scania instead of Swedish? Scania is like this uber small place on the tip of Sweden, is there some sort of dialect there that you're learning called that?
Anyway, I love how you say lingq is ok, but then lingq is the one that gave you wrong things to say! "Pimpluer I would use for fun NOT for study and only free in the library..Pimpluer would be my my little I am bored..bad movie.." what were you saying here? I didn't understand? And it's Pimsleur, by the way and it wasn't wrong just formal which is very often the case with any language program. I agree that maybe Rosetta Stone isn't the BEST and that maybe magazines and movies are the best way to learn current ways of speaking. Its a well known fact around here that such cookie cutter "learn any language" programs don't work, especially for more obscure languages. You don't have to tell us that. They're for amateurs but a good current book or program will still help and then you can get a larger vocabulary when there aren't multitudes of gorgeous "Scania girls" to help you. Not to mention there are some who only use textbooks and such programs and while they may sound a little strange when speaking to a native, they don't make many mistakes. Also, yeah for a language where the word order isn't SVO, more structured learning is a lot of help. Edited by Ashley_Victrola on 09 July 2009 at 12:46am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| goosefrabbas Triglot Pro Member United States Joined 6374 days ago 393 posts - 475 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: German, Italian Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 47 09 July 2009 at 12:58am | IP Logged |
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I'm just gonna say your title is misleading. Programs don't "stop" fluency. Programs can certainly help, but if you rely solely on something like Rosetta Stone (I don't know anything about LingQ so I can't comment on it) you'll get nowhere.
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| mrhenrik Triglot Moderator Norway Joined 6085 days ago 482 posts - 658 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, French Personal Language Map | Message 7 of 47 09 July 2009 at 1:46am | IP Logged |
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Your method requires natives to be available. For instance, Spanish is everywhere in the US, and you have Scandinavian acquaintances. Not everyone's that lucky. ;p
There are almost no Japanese in Norway, no Japanese places to go to and nobody to use my Japanese words and phrases on. Those who look Japanese are adopted ;p, so the programs are good for me. I use Rosetta Stone and I like it a lot. As I get better, I combine it first now with Japanese Anime series with subs, and then without subs. Your method is good for someone living in the US, I would say. ;) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| healing332 Senior Member United States Joined 5626 days ago 164 posts - 211 votes | Message 8 of 47 09 July 2009 at 1:50am | IP Logged |
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I agree but I will try to be more clear..I say Scania because the lazy genius brain in ALL of us does not want to write out the whole word. And it is the company my Girlfriends Father works for. LingQ is good for their convesations..you can hear real adult conversations on any subject..it is a real radio program you can listen to..that is what i would download and listen to..NOT their lessons..and words games..like "Who is she"
I did not say pimsluer was wrong..it was formal Pimsluer lessons stick to you like a Village people song YMCA..you can not get it out your head..but he uses the sentences Prince Charles would choose PIMSLUER: DO you want something to eat"? Answer: I will gladly have something to eat MY SVENSKA MOVIES: Ar du hundrig?..answer: Ja I would cross reference everything pimsleur says Here is a typical day for me (Please do not tell me I spelled words wrong..this is an example and I only started this language 2 weeks ago) 1.Wake up..God morgon to the person in the room with me..Hur mor du ..(How are you).. vill du har nogot a ata? Do you want something to eat? 2. Outside : Hej.. (to the mailman or coffee guy)..have a nice day..see you later..veces.. 3. On the train read newspaper or bok in new language " Example MICHAEL JACKSON DOD at 50! I bet everyone knows what that headline says I will read this one story all the way to work..Our lazy genius brains are going to remeber the same words in your movies at night..(DO NOT FORCE YOURSELF TO TRANSLATE..IT WILL NATURAL TRANSLATE IN TIME) At work I will sprinkle my new language in every conversation possible...you would be surprised how people do not care if you do this.. I live as a Swed..Latino..Frenchman from day uno! 4. On the way home you read your Svenska bok.. I am reading a bok on terrorns in the middle east..I bet you know what the subject is just from the word..TERRORNS It is not a beginner bok at all..the book just has to be interesting...do not go by levels.. If I like boxing it is better to have the hardest level on boxing in my new language over a beginning book on flowers At night I do my movie disecting..(see the how i learn Spanish in 4 moths thread) This is a three point hit.. 1.immediate speaking.. 2.immediate reading 3.and the most current language program in the world MOVIES!..(DO NOT WATCH MOVIES..DISECT THE MOVIES) I live a a native from day one!..when the Rebellious brain realizes this you start understanding..it is really fun **fOOTNOTE** The openning line from the movie Tilsamman(together) Franco DOD!..Franco DOD..Franco DOD..that is the reason I know how to write MICHAEL JACKSON DOD AT 50 I have seen and disected this movie maybe 6 times in my first week on Scandanavian living..i will take it out the library again in a week *I have never heard of SVO..but my lazy brain just told me it must be Subject Verb order..this is the same way it will tell you what words mean when you read a new language 1 person has voted this message useful |
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