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"Slang" is it really necessary??? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| antonius_rgp Newbie Australia Joined 6311 days ago 3 posts - 3 votes Speaks: Indonesian* | Message 1 of 27 22 August 2007 at 1:24am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Hi All,
I want to know what are your opinion in regards to learning slang form of any language. I am LOTE (Languages Other Than English) Teacher, specialising in Indonesian. I, myself, disagree to teach slang or use a book that contains too many slang language. I have to admit learning the slang for of any language has its own attraction and might have a 'boost' effect towards learning the language itself. But slang in my opinion has different context and use for different locality (depending on where and when you use the slang) as different parts of Indonesia (I use Indonesian language as an example here) have different forms of slangs and different way of using it. Slang forms also keep on changing from time to time. and if you are using the old slang (thinking that it may sound 'cool'), you might found yourself being branded as a 'weirdo' or 'old-skool'. But there are others who have different point of view towards slang. And I want to know your opinions. Cheers. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| FSI Senior Member United States Joined 6365 days ago 550 posts - 590 votes  Speaks: English* | Message 2 of 27 22 August 2007 at 1:51am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I think the best place to pick up slang is through the perusal of native materials - books, music, television, conversation. It's one of those facets of language I believe shouldn't be tackled early, but should develop naturally, as the learner becomes more aware of different uses of the language. If attempted before the learner is fully aware of the contexts in which certain phrases are appropriate (and inappropriate), the results may be unpleasant. Much better to pick up bits and pieces by osmosis, rather than by flipping through "street guides" or "how to slang" manuals designed for unwitting tourists.
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| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7211 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 3 of 27 22 August 2007 at 4:43am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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One issue I've found with slang is that what may be commonly used by one group of speakers may be totally inappropriate in a professional situation. It may be surprising to find one group of users who are constantly speaking in a crude manner. It can be difficult to gauge how vulgar something is even in context. Some people enjoy speaking this way, and you may think some words are milder than they are in less formal situations.
Slang may lure a learner into imprecise thinking. For instance, "that asshole pissed me off" only tells you a bit about the speakers emotional state and reaction to a situation, whereas "I'm disappointed that that gentleman in the green trousers took the last pork chop because I'm still hungry" is clearer in thought and communication. Idioms, on the other hand are useful. "Time flies", "where did the time go?", "it's been a long time" are not vulgar and some effort to learn idioms may prove useful for the advancing student. Edited by luke on 22 August 2007 at 4:43am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| dmg Diglot Senior Member Canada dgryski.blogspot.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 7017 days ago 555 posts - 605 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Dutch, Esperanto | Message 4 of 27 22 August 2007 at 6:59am | IP Logged | ||||||||
"I'm pissed 'cause that jerkwad in the ugly green zoot suit yoinked the last hunk of pork and I'm f***'ing _starving_." (Out comes my "I believe in descriptive linguistics, not prescriptive" hat) To say that slang lacks precision is incorrect. While it's not always _appropriate_ to speak in such a low register, the register itself is not "worse" than the register commonly taught in textbooks. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7211 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 5 of 27 22 August 2007 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
It depends on how slang is used. If the most common intensifier and fill word is f***ing, everyone but "you" and "I" are @ssholes, and s*it is a common replacement for nouns, it is imprecise. Have you ever found yourself swept up in emotion and vulgarity? I hope not, but some of us have. Have you ever met someone who does not think clearly and relies heavily on vulgarity? If you haven't, you are very fortunate. I'm not suggesting a necessarily causal relationship between slang and imprecise thinking, but rather a degree of concurrence. Slang isn't the only type of language that desensitizes ones thinking. I only suggest that one be congnizant of the myriad dangers when working with blunt objects, as well as circumspect when using them. Edited by luke on 22 August 2007 at 2:34pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| dmg Diglot Senior Member Canada dgryski.blogspot.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 7017 days ago 555 posts - 605 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Dutch, Esperanto | Message 6 of 27 22 August 2007 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
This isn't a problem with slang, but a problem with vocabulary. You would have the same problem (with "precision") in the standard register if you only intensifier was "really", everybody else was "guy", and "thing" for your nouns.
Again, my claim is that this is not a problem with slang per se, as slang is rich with shades of nuance, but rather a problem with vocabulary in general. I will agree that lower vocabulary sizes might be correlated with lower education levels, and thus lower dialectical registers, but slang itself is neither the problem nor the cause of this problem. Clearly we hang out with different groups of people. Edited by dmg on 22 August 2007 at 9:39pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| GLF Groupie United States Joined 6442 days ago 73 posts - 71 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Russian | Message 7 of 27 23 August 2007 at 10:17am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Are we talking about slang or profanity here? I do believe there is a difference, and many people here seem to be offering examples of vulgarity rather than slang. Here's a good definition of slang:
Nonstandard vocabulary of extreme informality, usually not limited to any region. It includes newly coined words, shortened forms, and standard words used playfully out of their usual context. Slang is drawn from the vocabularies of limited groups: cant, the words or expressions coined or adopted by an age, ethnic, occupational, or other group (e.g., college students, jazz musicians); jargon, the shoptalk or technical terminology specific to an occupation; and argot, the cant and jargon used as a secret language by thieves or other criminals. Occupying a middle ground between standard and informal words accepted by the general public and the special words or expressions of these subgroups, slang often serves as a testing ground for words in the latter category. Many prove either useful enough to become accepted as standard or informal words or too faddish for standard use. Blizzard and okay have become standard, while conbobberation ("disturbance") and tomato ("girl") have been discarded. Some words and expressions have a lasting place in slang; for instance, beat it ("go away"), first used in the 16th century, has neither become standard English nor vanished. Slang may be informal, but it should not be offensive. To use an example from the above definition, "beat it" certainly is not correct English if taken literally, but there's nothing vulgar in using the expression. To answer the original question, I personally don't like using slang even in English because it sounds somewhat uneducated (I'm not saying that all those who use slang are uneducated; I'm just saying I think it sounds that way) and also encourages an incorrect use of many words. However, a knowledge of the popular slang terms can be helpful in understanding things if you are in a situation where they are used a lot (online forums, etc.). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| H.Computatralis Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 6310 days ago 130 posts - 210 votes Speaks: Polish*, French, English Studies: German, Spanish, Latin | Message 8 of 27 24 August 2007 at 4:28am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I disagree with the idea of learning slang at an early stage, and would like to offer my own experience as an example. My parents were Polish immigrants to Canada, so my native language is Polish. I haven't learned much in the way of slang, partly because my parents wanted me to speak properly and partly because I was limited to the informal speech of my parents and their Polish friends.
I came back to live in Poland as an adult and I can say that acquiring the slang is not difficult at all. At first you might not get some jokes or chit-chat, but it comes without much difficulty. It's quite easy to distinguish appropriate and inappropriate uses from context when you already know the standard language. I say, learn the standard language without regard to slang. Learn the slang in context and by immersion only. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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