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New Guy - Learning Norse | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Ragnorok Newbie United Kingdom Joined 6119 days ago 3 posts - 3 votes | Message 1 of 5 29 December 2007 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hello people, I am a new guy to these forums and I've just started learning Norse. (I'm using the Norse, Norwegian and Icelandic languages to build a language form with an English style syntax for a performance project, but am going the full length with Norse, because it has already got me interested)
Current Progress: I have done the first grammar lessons, just basic grammar nicely explained - I like that in a learning experience, rather than those ones that sit there getting you to repeat the phrases. I'd rather them say 'this is their word order, they do this, they do that'. With the so-called 'course' (so called, because it's just a recommended free online one) I'm doing, it's doing just that. I also like all of the words translated for me when learning, so when they're reused, I can recognise patterns and pick out other meanings. With Norse, I know there are limitations, but really it's a personal goal. What I can do, well I can translate most of this extract of a Norse cartoon strip. (Unfortunately I couldn't find some words anywhere) Óláfr heitir konungr. Hann á brand. Geirr heitir maðr. Hann er Norðmaðr. Óláfr sér Geir. Ó: "Geirr!" G: "Geirr heiti ek, konungr." Óláfr tekr geirinn. Ó: "Geir vil ek!" Nú hefir Geirr eigi Geir. It means: A King is called Olafr. He owns a sword. I cannot translate maðr or Norðmaðr, but I assume based on the image and context-> A soldier is called Geirr [spear]. He is a Norse soldier. Olafr sees a spear. O: "SPEAR!" G: "I'm called spear (Geirr), King." Olafr takes the spear. O: "I want a spear!" [Don't know was 'Nu' means, but the sentence without it says, "Geirr (spear) does not hold/wields a spear." Based on the context, I'm going to guess and say with 'nu' in the sentence it'd mean "Geirr no longer holds/wields a spear.") The grammar I've learned, well in basic terms, is that in Norse the subject or complement in a sentence is not defined by its syntax, but by the pronoun used or if a noun is just used an extension to the subject word is used, which is 'r'. The extract I used doesn't provide a good example, but the first line uses 'King' as the subject and 'Olafr' as a complement. (A King is called Olafr) their word for king has the 'r' at the end, thus being the subject of the sentence, so 'Óláfr heitir konungr' and 'konungr heitir Óláfr' mean the exact same thing. It's not dependent on the syntax. 'r' really is just the masculine suffix, I haven't learned feminine or neuter yet. Another thing learned is the use of the/a, they don't use specific words for those, 'a' is thrown out of the sentence, so 'A king is called Olafr', really is, 'King is called Olafr'. 'The' works as a suffix instead, I don't know if it acquires a gender, but with the words I've used so far they've acquire the suffix, 'inn' (example 'geirinn' = 'The Spear') when the suffix 'r' is also involved, the 'inn' goes after words as in if 'The King' was a subject or complement - 'Konungrinn'. There are other things learned, but they were just the pronouns in Norse (Ek, mik...) and words picked up through the first lesson. Cheers and enjoy! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ChristopherB Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 6259 days ago 851 posts - 1074 votes  2 sounds Speaks: English*, German, French | Message 2 of 5 30 December 2007 at 1:40am | IP Logged | ||
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Good luck! I'm flirting with Icelandic at the moment. Along with Faroese, Norse/Icelandic seem to be the most grammatically complex of the Germanic languages, so it'll be a real treat to read the Sagas and Eddas in the original, whenever that might be. I think the main problem, like with many languages is learning the sometimes unique forms of many different verbs. All comes with time though, of course.
Do keep us updated! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| urubu Pentaglot Groupie Germany Joined 6549 days ago 49 posts - 72 votes Speaks: German*, Dutch, Portuguese, Indonesian, English | Message 3 of 5 30 December 2007 at 4:22am | IP Logged | ||
'nú' means 'now', i.e. the sentence means: 'Geirr does not have a spear now'. Michael 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ragnorok Newbie United Kingdom Joined 6119 days ago 3 posts - 3 votes | Message 4 of 5 30 December 2007 at 6:29am | IP Logged | ||
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Cheers Urubu, that does make more sense.
Franzi, cool, I've looked at a little Icelandic for the project I'm working on, I think I can say a little, like "Eg Heiti Ragnorok." of course it's great for its close relationship to Norse, hence the Norse equivalent is 'Ek heiti Ragnorok'(or 'Ragnorok heiti ek.'). The grammar I've looked at so far looks pretty interesting and might be an interesting system to pick up and use and it seems syntax isn't important at all and will require a little perception change - no doubt making the Original Edda and Sagas to read. (I don't know how Norse they're written it, as I'm sure Edda was written in 13th century Iceland - compiled of the stories the Vikings left behind, so there might be some language changes, only minor no doubt.) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6646 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 5 of 5 10 January 2008 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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"Maðr" simply means 'man', "Norðmaðr" then means 'Norseman' ("maður" in Modern Icelandic, "mennir" in the plural). And as confirmed by Urubu, "nü" (or "núna") means 'now'.
"I want a spear!" could just as well probably be understood as "I want the spear!", as the omission of the definitive article - the only one to be found in Old norse/Icelandic - was quite common in Old Norse. If you don't have a dictionary it is quite clever to guess that "brand" means 'sword'. "Geir" is the accusative of "geirr", 'spear'. As for "hefir" I didn't know the exact verb form, but I have checked it with Google, and it seams that the meaning just is "have". But it is very close to the word for 'to lift' ("hefja" in Modern Icelandic), and "Now Geir doesn't heave spear any more" would certainly be a tempting translation. You have made a good start, and I'm sure that you will take in in your stride as a real viking when you discover that not only are the nouns themselves inflected in three genders and 4 (or 5) cases, with different endings for 'strong' and 'weak' nouns, but on top of that the so called postclitic definite articles have their own endings with three genders and 4 cases. And even when an ending has been lost, it may still have left traces through 'u-omlyd', such as in the neutral plural: "land" -> "lönd" (or "lọnd" as it is normally written in Old Norse). By the way, "Ragnarọk" originally just meant "fate of the mighty ones" (i.e. the gods), but because of the dire predictions in the grandiose poem "Vọluspá" it came to mean almost the same thing as "Doomesday". So you have chosen a name with ominous connotations - I almost see the ravens of Odin circling around your head. Good luck with your studies. And good luck with your performance. Edited by Iversen on 10 January 2008 at 12:42pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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