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Anyone become fluent w/o having travelled | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| FrenchLanguage Senior Member Germany Joined 5738 days ago 122 posts - 135 votes  | Message 9 of 21 27 June 2009 at 9:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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Ive basically done it myself (I have yet to go to an English-speaking country and have been told my English was perfectly fluent on more than one occasion (though I'm pretty sure I do not have the accent of a native speaker!)). I haven't really accomplished that level with French, yet (though I'd say I'm close and have spent a total of 8 days in France before) - but I think the only difference is that it's quite a bit harder to practice French (whereas practicing English couldn't be much easier for a really motivated person).
I was just curious if other people on here have done it/heard of cases (such as that one bulgarian lady :-))...as the ordinary opinion is that "you can only become fluent at a language if you stay/live in the country for a while". Id totally agree that the micro-climate as you call it is more important than the macro-climate (though the macro helps create the micro, etc.). Reminds me of studying for college: I can either try to find and write down ways to make my studying more efficient and try to make all those little things work. Or I can bet 1,000 dollars with a friend that I won't be able to study the material until date xyz and you can bet your ass that is motivation enough/creates enough pressure for me to magically get those "micro things" (finding a different quieter place at the library, finishing even if Im tired, etc.) right hehe. I havent tried the 1,000 dollars idea yet ;), but the same thing happens when exams come closer and I have that pressure, anyway (Im thinking of doing the 1,000 dollar thing next semesterthough LOL) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Recht Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5803 days ago 241 posts - 270 votes Speaks: English*, GermanB1 | Message 10 of 21 27 June 2009 at 9:57pm | IP Logged | ||
If mezzofanti could do it in a relatively technologically unadvanced age, anyone living in the electronic age can do it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| fairyfountain Senior Member Zimbabwe Joined 6130 days ago 254 posts - 248 votes 5 sounds | Message 11 of 21 27 June 2009 at 10:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yeah, that's true. I think it's quite sad that some people still think they can't. Oh well...
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| FrenchLanguage Senior Member Germany Joined 5738 days ago 122 posts - 135 votes | Message 12 of 21 28 June 2009 at 12:59am | IP Logged | ||
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"If mezzofanti could do it in a relatively technologically unadvanced age, anyone living in the electronic age can do it. "
I dont really like saying this, because itll sound like Im taking pride and having done it and wanting to be the only one who can :P, but I really think your comparison/reasoning in this case is extremely flawed. I didnt know who mezzofanti was, but now I do, and that person must have obviously been an "outlier" (if we c onsider human beings and their natural abilities to be data points ;))...and obviously waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay above average when it comes to the natural ability to learn/pick up languages. Like the kind of talent/ability only 1 in 100,000 has. Or 1 in 1,000,000. Or even 1 in (pick a higher number). Someone with that kind of ability might as well do much better when it comes to learning languages in a not so electronically advanced century than the average human being can in an electronically advanced century (possibly even with a private teacher, etc.). I dont want to criticize you in a negative way or anything, but I think the comparison/reasoning is totally flawed. Then again, I think anyone can technically do it, if the person "only" has enough motivation/curiosity (which I think is key, not high intelligence). But I think most people just don't have that kind of motivation/curiosity. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5768 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 13 of 21 28 June 2009 at 2:44am | IP Logged | ||
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My current level of English was achieved without spending a single day in an English-speaking country. It still is far from my native language ability, but good enough that people ask me where I stayed in England. So this level is relatively easy to achieve with little work or self-discipline, but a lot of exposure. With more self-discipline it should be possible to reach a level of fluency that might be near-native in some aspects, but probably is lopsided compared to a true native epeaker.
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| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 6036 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes 5 sounds | Message 14 of 21 28 June 2009 at 3:04am | IP Logged | ||
Mind you, that's the dominant opinion in Western Europe. Back home (I'm making another reference to Bulgaria ;p), people think otherwise. I know because I've studied both English (in school) and French ( in the Institut Français de Sofia ) following a method that emphasises memorization, not communication (i.e. memorizing verb conjugations and grammatical intricacies.) Learning languages is regarded as a purely scholar activity, no travelling involved. Of course, this is not entirely to the benefit of students. The truth lies somewhere in between the two extremes. Edited by Sennin on 28 June 2009 at 3:19am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5768 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 15 of 21 28 June 2009 at 3:23am | IP Logged | ||
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Sennin, in Germany the opinion fostered by the teachers I heard talking about this so far is: You first have to memorize and to learn to understand and afterwards immerse yourself in the country to communicate.
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 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5849 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 16 of 21 28 June 2009 at 9:45am | IP Logged | ||
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I am a good example of a person with good language skills without having the possibility to travel or to live in a foreign country. The Dutch language forms an exeption, because I have regular native speaker contacts and am able to visit the Ntherlands from time to time living 25 km away from the Dutch border.
I have never been to Spain or Italy to speak the languages there. The only speaking experience with those languages I have with German friends. My last visit in France of two weeks was 10 years ago. I can't even visit Esperantujo due to lack of money. At university where I studied Romance languages I was the only student who did not travel to these countries. All my student collegues had student jobs and did a lot of travelling. I couldn't get a student job, because I was older than the others. It's quite demanding to compensate the lack of money and travelling in the language learning process. Perhaps my example is encouraging to others who cannot travel or live in foreign countries. Fasulye 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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