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Mandarin(ASL,SEE,Japanese,Arabic) Journey | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| furyou_gaijin Senior Member Japan Joined 6329 days ago 540 posts - 631 votes  Speaks: Latin* | Message 33 of 52 16 November 2007 at 4:38am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Why do people always want to start at the upper end of the scale? Why not start with Chinese books written in contemporary spoken Chinese, not translations from rather difficult English? These are infinitely easier to follow. Lots of contemporary Chinese stuff can be found at xxsy.net. Something really famous, like 【上海寶貝】may be a good place to start.
The above has some uncommon vocabulary and one may spend some time wondering what 温斯顿史密斯 stands for but other than that, what is so unusual about the word order? Still, contrast it with the beginning of 【上海寶貝】 and there is no question which one is easier:
Edited by furyou_gaijin on 16 November 2007 at 4:44am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Jee Senior Member Australia Joined 6252 days ago 105 posts - 105 votes Studies: English | Message 34 of 52 16 November 2007 at 7:45am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Actually "温斯顿史密斯" is a directly translation(pronounciation translation)from English,
--------"Wenston Smith", just a person's name 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| senor_smile Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6329 days ago 110 posts - 115 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Russian | Message 35 of 52 16 November 2007 at 10:43am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Furyou_gaijin. Latine loqueris? Do you frequent the colloquia latina at http://chat.yle.fi/yleradio1/latini/index.php?
四月间，天气寒冷晴朗，钟敲了十三下。 It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen. So, 四月间 means in April? I've only seen the word 间in 时间, meaning time. So, using popup chinesepera-kun I get the defintion for 间 as: between / among / space / (measure word) So, I think, maybe among should be taken to mean "In" in this case. I consult my paper dictionary and see the meaning between too. Finally, I come to an example in another paper dictionary, the collins minidictionary: 晚间 means "in the evening." So, I now assume that 四月间 is the same as just saying, 四月. And, that was the first ten minutes of my studying. By the way, thanks for the link to native chinese stories. I will check that out in a bit. I suppose I need somewhere to search for sample sentences that will not lead me on dead ends of nonsense, and having to consult my paper dictionary makes it all so much slower. I suppose it's the annoyance of being so new into my studies of chinese, and it's such a different language from all of the european languages that I've studied. Edited by senor_smile on 16 November 2007 at 10:44am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| furyou_gaijin Senior Member Japan Joined 6329 days ago 540 posts - 631 votes Speaks: Latin* | Message 36 of 52 16 November 2007 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Euh... no. I don't see the point.
First and foremost, I hate all pop-up dictionaries for Chinese and Japanese. Two reasons: (1) they make one lazy and (2) they don't know the first thing about parsing sentences into words. I can also argue that it is very possible to conjecture the meaning of 四月间 from the common sense 四月 and 间 of 时间. But you may want to be more inquisitive than that. That's why you may want to go to dict.cn - the best tool known to me for looking up words. Why is it the best? For the simple reason - it comes up with examples based not on the exact word that has been fed to it, but it has some sort of a 'sound like' function that permits to explore the context. Feeding 四月间 to it gives us the following: 1. 回历四月 2. 四月 3. 四月齿 4. 四月牙形的 5. 四月十七号 6. 九月至次年四月 7. 气温在九月间下降。 8. 她是四月出生的. Example number 7 utilises the construction we are looking for and translates into 'The temperature drops in September.' In fact, 四月间 in the above translates more like 'one day in April'. Oh yes, and feeding 钟敲 to dict.cn brings back: 钟敲了十二下。: The clock struck12. And so on... But start with easier, contemporary stuff and don't get upset if there is a construction you don't get. Just move on and it will make sense later. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| senor_smile Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6329 days ago 110 posts - 115 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Russian | Message 37 of 52 16 November 2007 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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dict.cn is exactly what I've been looking for. Finally whole sentences to whet my appetite. Thanks!
By the way, wouldn't the whole phrase 在九月间 be taken to mean in september? 他是四月份搬进这所房子的。 He moved into this house in April. does the 份 of 四月份 act that same as the 间 of 四月间? Edited by senor_smile on 16 November 2007 at 1:08pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| furyou_gaijin Senior Member Japan Joined 6329 days ago 540 posts - 631 votes Speaks: Latin* | Message 38 of 52 16 November 2007 at 1:37pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I would say "some time in September" or "from a certain day in September". Think logically what 间 does in this sentence.
I do believe that 月份 just means 'month' as a bisyllabic and the sense of 'continuous period of time' is not truly present in 月份 in the same way it is conveyed through 间. But I am just speculating and splitting the hair now... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Jee Senior Member Australia Joined 6252 days ago 105 posts - 105 votes Studies: English | Message 39 of 52 17 November 2007 at 1:39am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Look at the structure of the character
間 (traditional) :sun in the gap of two sectors of door,the sunlight can comes in or you can see the sunlight via the gap 间 (simplized): sun in the gap of two sectors of door....... it means: 1 between,among, 2 space 3 measure word 4 crevice,aperture,gap 5 a range of period,persons or space 四月=四月份 But 四月间, you can feel that we are among or inside the April,we are immerged in it it's a sort of feeling of poem Edited by Jee on 17 November 2007 at 6:50am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| solidsnake Diglot Senior Member China Joined 6984 days ago 469 posts - 488 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 40 of 52 17 November 2007 at 2:13am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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ok 月份 is just a more formal and literary way of saying 月。 One of the meanings of 间 is space as in "in the space of." The Chinese have long ago correlated the space and time continuum (sans Einstein) so 四月间 is a more visual way of creating the "space" of and around April. Its a subtlety and a concept we don't have in English (at least one not as succinct)and gives the writing a little more grace but is not essential for understanding the basic meaning, so stop going through the text and analyzing every character. Get the overall picture and the details we become more clear (and enjoyable) as your level progresses.
温斯顿史密斯 I glanced at that and could translate it immediately.This is something that takes a little practice obviously, but all foreign names and places in chinese tend to rely on the same 100 or so characters to pronounce, some which have no meaning in modern chinese and are used purely phonetically like 斯, which are pretty big hints. edit: jee beat me to the punch, thats what i get for surfing other pages before hitting the post button. Edited by solidsnake on 17 November 2007 at 2:14am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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