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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5840 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes  Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 41 of 50 30 May 2009 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
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What's the "grammar-translation methodology" that Frankeld is talking about?
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| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5768 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 42 of 50 30 May 2009 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
Teaching modern languages the way Latin and Ancient Greek are taught wiki/Grammar_translation I disagree with Frankelds opinion. Having had Latin classes for 5 years, I do use the methology I was taught there - in maybe 1% to 5% of my overall study time. It is a tool that is good to have, but nowhere near necessary. My English is worse than usually today, lo siento. Edited by Bao on 30 May 2009 at 2:16pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6945 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 43 of 50 30 May 2009 at 5:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
That grammar-translation is 'necessary' wasn't the statement, the point was only that the grammar-translation methodology is effective, which doesn't automatically preclude other methods from being effective too. It does have a long track record, so one can at least be certain that it works. I don't like comparisons with Latin and Greek. Those are dead languages, learning which is not the same type of experience as learning a modern language. To avoid getting hung up on what constitutes the 'true' grammar-translation method, it may be helpful to just think of some of the more obvious aspects of the traditional school teaching methods. One starts with a foundational course, in which one reads short passages, dialogs, etc., which introduce new vocabulary and illustrate and reinforce the grammar, as it is being studied and practiced through a series of completion and substitution exercises, as well as translation exercises in both directions and compositions in the target language. Early on, one also introduces readers, graded at first. One records new words and memorizes them as much as possible. Of course, whether it is a proper part of the grammar-translation method or not, a school course would also involve sound, both by hearing the teacher speak the target language and with the students having to say things in the target language in class. Sounds dull, perhaps, but it works with enough hours of instruction. Even those who study on their own often employ a number of elements of the grammar-translation method. Reading a book a magazine, or a newspaper, looking up the unknown vocabulary, recording and reviewing it, and occasionally consulting a grammar book for clarification of some unexpected or unclear grammatical issues as they arise - those activities are still alive and well today among many language learners. And grammar-translation they are. Modern alternatives exist - TV series are often cited. They may work too, but Cordelia's grandmother didn't grow up with a DVD player in her house. Edited by frenkeld on 30 May 2009 at 5:33pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5840 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 46 of 50 30 May 2009 at 7:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Some interesting and inspiring information has come out of this thread.
The security guard in Egypt that EliteLingo was talking about was interesting to hear about. I've come across similar people and you really get blown away. The experience of people who got "alienated" from a specific language in school, like Liz, is probably something that you can learn from. Something has gone wrong when this happens.. Bad/nasty teacher, bad learning material, environment, or the student is distracted by personal problems. The experience of people like Tombstone who learn languages in the military is also interesting. I know people who learnt languages very fast in the military too. I used to think they had some kind of special technique or genius teachers, but it seems that it is simply a combo of motivation, long hours and tough discipline. Thanks for explaining about the "grammar-translation methodology". So far my conclusion is that advanced tools are not necessarily required and can be a distraction. However, the advantage of having a course at hand on your ipod or having a good flash-card application running on your PC should not be understimated. The community of language learners like here and on Livemocha can be an asset but also eat up time unless you are careful. I learnt English before mp3 players and the internet. The only advantage I had over my grandmother was TV/video with subtitles and much more travel and staying abroad. According to my grandmother she listened to radio from and read in German in addition to normal study. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5768 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 47 of 50 31 May 2009 at 5:40pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Frankeld, I'm sorry for misinterpreting your posting.
What for me makes it difficult to learn in the way you described is that I need a teacher for it - spmebody who prepares material, sets a study pace, corrects mistakes and clarifies any question that might arise. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6945 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 48 of 50 31 May 2009 at 8:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
This led to a good discussion, so don't even mention it.
One standard recommendation I've seen regarding the need for a teacher is to try to find a textbook specifically designed for self-study. As far as setting the study pace, one gets into the issue of the motivation problems a particular method may elicit in a particular learner. Precisely because different methods motivate different students differently, it's hard to compare different methods on the "fun factor". One approach is to ignore the fun aspect entirely and just compare the methods on their intrinsic efficiency. One is then free to discard a method that may be intrinsically efficient, but not suitable to one's taste. Another approach is to grit one's teeth and study with a hard yet efficient method (and maybe even learn to enjoy the intellectual challenge), while seeking fun in practicing the language, be it passively or actively. And that's where we get into the differences between our grandparents' generation and our own. :) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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