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The Classroom and Language Learning | ||
Tags: School Education | Language Teaching | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Javi Senior Member Spain Joined 5983 days ago 419 posts - 548 votes  Speaks: Spanish* | Message 9 of 33 07 May 2009 at 8:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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@Cainntear, I would say that most people here are neither teachers nor kids with special needs, so why do you keep saying that all the time? Whatever thing you might think of, there are people who can't do it. You call people who can teach themselves good learners and people with special needs just normal learners. Why? Is this a kids orientated web site? Since when? I thought it was for adults. You haven't even acknowledged that what you call good learners not only can learn on their own, but also, maybe, they can benefit from it, it's good for them to skip classes.
In my experience with classes, teachers spend 100% of the time trying to teach you the language, rather than teaching you how to learn. The reason is obvious, a person who knows how to learn a language doesn't need to pay for a teacher. But it is worst: a language is something than has to be just learnt, absorbed, it can't be taught, so just about every cent you spend in traditional classes is wasted. The way I see it, you can learn a language without a teacher even if you don't know how to do it, there's nothing mysterious about that, common sense alone already gives you most of what you're going to need. If you are an adult and you've got a problem of illiteracy in your native language, or an inability to learn, perhaps you should have those issues addressed before trying to learn a foreing language, that way you'll save a lot of money. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Raudi Newbie Greenland Joined 5681 days ago 5 posts - 5 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Icelandic | Message 10 of 33 08 May 2009 at 10:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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I found that classroom lessons are generally more disruptive as one is often placed at the mercy of the class! If the current pupils have no interest, they're going to be making an effort to disrupt it for everyone else. I also tend to favour my own approach to things, in everything. Having a teacher hark over and over in monotone whilst pointing to the blackboard really does not cut it for me... Edited by Raudi on 08 May 2009 at 10:48pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| heartnsoul Triglot Groupie United States Joined 5723 days ago 45 posts - 47 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English*, Spanish Studies: Italian, German, Greek | Message 11 of 33 09 May 2009 at 2:32am | IP Logged | ||
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I feel that with classroom learning, there are of course pro's and con's, like there are with pretty much everything.
I've found that classroom learning gave me a wonderful foundation. It gave me knowledge of the language. However, you have to do other things beyond the classroom to learn a language - thats pretty much a given. You're not going to learn a language just by sitting in a classroom. I feel like I learned the most when I was thrown into a country that spoke the language, when I was thrown into complete immersion. However, had I not had that initial classroom learning experience, I am sure I would have fared much worse than I did. Instead, I was able to use what I learned in the classroom and build on that with what I experienced and heard while studying abroad. I do agree that most self-learners are more motivated to learn a language because they actually want to. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| TheBiscuit Tetraglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 5925 days ago 532 posts - 619 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Italian Studies: German, Croatian | Message 12 of 33 09 May 2009 at 9:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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Classroom learning: the most prehistoric, unnatural and painful way to teach/learn a foreign language. Well, this is the conclusion I'm coming to as a language teacher.
Every semester is the same. I get various classes of 25. I know up to 5 will pass easily, up to 5 will fail spectacularly and the rest will do enough to pass the exam (no proof of learning). I try every method known to man, take into account learning styles blah blah blah but it doesn't make a shred of difference. Those that pass easily are already good learners (and would learn in any school, with any method, any teacher), they only need me to correct them. I can't help the failing ones as I don't have the class time to devote to them or their needs. The rest are happy with a mediocre pass. I did an experiment this semster. I wanted to see how much German I could learn studying half an hour a day compared to their hour of class time each day. Turns out I learnt at least 5 times as much German as they did English. I think I'd be better of devoting class time purely to study methods and leaving them to get on with it. Whinge over. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jar-ptitsa Triglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 5900 days ago 980 posts - 1006 votes Speaks: French*, Dutch, German | Message 14 of 33 10 May 2009 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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Classes are ok if there are about 6 or 10 people. In my school we've this number, but in my old school we were 20
and it's too many. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5840 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 15 of 33 10 May 2009 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well for me, I studied far too many foreign languages at the same time in school!
I think the minimum you can get away with in Swedish secondary schools is two foreign languages; English and one other. And that would be a "non academic" student aiming for a vocational qualification, not for university. I was not particularly interested in foreign languages, my passion was maths and computing. But because of the curriculum requirement and expectations of secondary schools in Sweden I was studying the following foreign languages at the same time: English, French and Spanish. Far too many! I desperately wanted to drop the French but the school refused to let me, unless I became a serious student of either German or Russian instead, catching up with the existing classes. I had a go with Russian but it didn't work, so I ended up suffering through French with poor grades, hating every second of it. (I went to a boarding school that probably had higher expectations and a stricter policy towards students. Hence the lack of compromise about French. But I think the situation would have been similar in any school. It is possible that things have changed, but back when I went to school you were not considered serious unless you had two languages in addition to English.) At the time this didn't strike me as strange at all, but I really don't think most people realistically have the capacity to make progress in that many languages at the same time! Particularly not when trying to learn science, history etc at the same time. I would guess that only "smaller" languages / countries have a similar setup; Probably the other Scandinavian countries and Netherlands... I often admire Dutch and Swiss people for speaking many European languages well as a result of having learnt them in school. And they have the advantage of being geographically close to areas where the languages are spoken. Edited by cordelia0507 on 10 May 2009 at 3:51pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| TheBiscuit Tetraglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 5925 days ago 532 posts - 619 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Italian Studies: German, Croatian | Message 16 of 33 10 May 2009 at 7:22pm | IP Logged | ||
Research shows that class size actually makes no difference. I have other smaller classes and the exact same thing happens, even when there are very few students. In fact, I find the more involved I am, the less they learn. When I take a step back and make them do the work, progress is made, although it doesn't really change the outcome. There are just too many variables the teacher cannot control in the 'sage on the stage' style class. As a methodology it doesn't work. It doesn't matter how good the teacher is either. Those same 5 students will pass with any teacher, no matter how bad the teacher is - I've seen it time and time again. And if you try to change things, the resistence is incredible, even when it's proven over and over that the current system does not work! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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