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What causes languages to simplify? | ||
Tags: Morphology | History | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| chucknorrisman Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5449 days ago 321 posts - 435 votes  Speaks: Korean*, English, Spanish Studies: Russian, Mandarin, Lithuanian, French | Message 1 of 33 28 June 2010 at 1:39am | IP Logged | ||
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If you compare many of the older languages to modern languages, you will see that the modern languages often are simpler grammatically. What causes these simplifications in grammar? I don't think the modern people are any less intelligent than the people of back then, so what could be the cause?
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| Ubik Senior Member United States ubykh.wordpress.com/ Joined 5317 days ago 147 posts - 176 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Latin, Arabic (Egyptian), German, Spanish | Message 2 of 33 28 June 2010 at 2:13am | IP Logged | ||
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Ive always wondered the same thing, but from the opposite angle: why is it that the
further back in time you go languages seem to be more complex? One would think that a culture who (presumably) didnt even write (or at least not as prolifically as later generations) couldnt keep track of all that stuff or teach it to their children effectively and therefore would create a simple language to get basic ideas across and as times changed, inventions came along, etc then it could gradually get more complex. For some reason, perhaps like you, I envision things getting more complicated as opposed to more relaxed as time goes on. Just as the law books keep getting thicker and thicker... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| dolly Senior Member United States Joined 5791 days ago 191 posts - 376 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Latin | Message 3 of 33 28 June 2010 at 2:24am | IP Logged | ||
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The standard theory is that a language loses its complexity through contact with people who speak other languages. Languages are simplified to make them easier to learn, which facilitates communication, and that's good for business. But I'm sure there's more to it. I'm simplifying.
Another theory is that cultures get stupider over time. Edited by dolly on 28 June 2010 at 2:26am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6944 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 4 of 33 28 June 2010 at 2:28am | IP Logged | ||
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There is a book by Guy Deutscher called "The Unfolding of Language - An Evolutionary Tour of Mainkind's Greatest Invention". It was recommended to me in an old thread on the same topic as this one.
It appears that the "politically correct" answer is that languages simplify in some respects while becoming more complicated in others. For example, English didn't used to have continuous tenses ("I am reading") nor used "do" as an auxiliary verb ("I know not" instead of the current "I do not know"). I am not sure I am convinced, but that's the mantra. Edited by frenkeld on 28 June 2010 at 3:44am 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 budonoseito Pro Member United States budobeyondtechnRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5806 days ago 261 posts - 344 votes Studies: French, Japanese Personal Language Map | Message 5 of 33 28 June 2010 at 2:31am | IP Logged | ||
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I think the written language would cause simplification through standardization. When
people and language were more isolated, they would have different pronunciation and grammar. As travel became easier, standardization occurred to communicate more effectively. My theory anyway. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ubik Senior Member United States ubykh.wordpress.com/ Joined 5317 days ago 147 posts - 176 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Latin, Arabic (Egyptian), German, Spanish | Message 6 of 33 28 June 2010 at 5:14am | IP Logged | ||
Thanks for the suggestion. This is so far a great read. Ill be picking up a copy from the library tomorrow. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Kazen Diglot Groupie Japan japanese-me.com Joined 5329 days ago 96 posts - 133 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese | Message 7 of 33 28 June 2010 at 8:21am | IP Logged | ||
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This is only a small part of language, but I read somewhere that irregular verbs tend to regularize over time. Why? Because irregular verbs are a pain. -_^
Quick, what's the past tense of "dive", as in "dive into a pool"? The old, "correct" answer is "dove", an irregular form. Many people say "dived", though, and according to Webster it's just as valid. I even heard it during the last Summer Olympics. So I guess I'm saying that languages simplify because it makes them simpler. ^_^;; 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| chirel Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 5311 days ago 125 posts - 159 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: French | Message 8 of 33 28 June 2010 at 10:51am | IP Logged | ||
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The grammar (at least when it comes to Finnish morphology) seems to be getting simpler because most learners
don't learn rare forms well (or rules for them) well. A child picks up things one at a time and creates his own rules/theories. The he applies these rules to other things analoguously and makes mistakes. After having made the same mistake often enough and having heard the correct form, he learns a new rule and starts to apply it. It's an exception to the first rule. In this way the child fine tunes the rules for morfology and syntax, but he might never really learn the rarest forms and thus uses the analoguous form. If many people start to use the same analoguous for, then it becomes the rule. A rare form could be something that is not used often or it could be a group of words significally smaller than other similar groups. Some elements in language are always disappearing and some getting stronger and new elements are introdused or created. In Finnish you might be able to say approximately how old some words are if you recognize the suffix they were created with, because at certain times some suffixes are more fashionable (or productive) than others. The new and fashionable elements might also replace some old ones and may spread quickly. The result is that something else becomes rare and might be more difficult to learn, and the process continues. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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