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Hebrew prepositional vowels | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 1 of 10 30 October 2013 at 2:06pm | IP Logged |
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Hello people, I've got a question that's very important if you are a Hebrew learner; what
are the vowels you use with the single-syllable prepositions מ,ל,ב in Hebrew? I am aware that if the preposition is followed by the definite article ה then ל,ב contract to form "ba, la" respectively (but maha), but I can't remember whether there are any rules to decide whether it is ba/be/bi, la/le/li or ma/me/mi otherwise. Does it have to do with noun gender? Edited by tarvos on 30 October 2013 at 2:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| HenryMW Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5175 days ago 125 posts - 179 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, French Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 2 of 10 30 October 2013 at 3:22pm | IP Logged |
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For le, I just use the singular endings, so: li, lecha, lach, lachem, lachen, lanu,
lahem, lahen, lo and la. Is that what you are referring to? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 3 of 10 30 October 2013 at 3:34pm | IP Logged |
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No, that's conjugating them for person.
However when you have a noun that is specific, the vowel changes, such as, la'aretz, leshem, laseret, mikan, mahatachanat otobus, etc. :) I mean when the vowel tacks onto a noun, not a personal pronoun suffix. Those are easy. Edited by tarvos on 30 October 2013 at 3:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5600 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 4 of 10 30 October 2013 at 4:27pm | IP Logged |
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Look at these examples (beware, there are still more rules):
לְבַיִת (to a house) no strenghening לַבַּיִת (to the house) strenghtening לְאִישׁ (to a man) no effects לָאִישׁ (to the man) compensatory lenghtening לִירוּשָׁלַיִם (to Jesusalem) fusion לֶעָשִׁיר (to the rich man) umlaut because of guttural לָאֳנִיָּה [loonijâ]! (to a ship) assimilation to a coloured guttural shva The traditional rules are very complex. To use them correctly is a bit pedantly (perfect for me!), but if you aim for a more colloquial style, ignore them. Principally the form depends of the first consonant and its vowel. gender is irrelevant. Edited by Cabaire on 31 October 2013 at 11:05am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5600 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 5 of 10 30 October 2013 at 5:13pm | IP Logged |
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Post scriptum:
It is מִתַּחֲנַת חָאוֹטוֹבּוּס [mittaħănat hāotobus] or if you treat the two words as a unit מֵהַתּחֲנַת אוֹטוֹבּוּס [mēhattaħănat otobus], not *maha... And that אֶרֶץ changes its vowels, when the article is tacked on (הָאָרֶץ), is a great exception. There are a handful of nouns which lenghten their vowels, when they get the article (גַּן but הַגָּן), but אֶרֶץ is the only word, where its quality changes also. Learn it as an exception. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 6 of 10 07 November 2013 at 3:48pm | IP Logged |
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Ok, but there are no easy shortcuts I can take (except for L + ha and B + ha fusing)?
Also you seem to be using lengthened vowels and another pronunciation for heth. I don't distinguish vowel length and for me chaf and chet are pronounced the same. Are you talking Biblical Hebrew here? Edited by tarvos on 07 November 2013 at 3:50pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5600 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 7 of 10 07 November 2013 at 11:13pm | IP Logged |
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Well, the modern language has inherited nearly all the morphological features of traditional Hebrew. It is a question of register and style, how closely you adhere to the finer points.
If you use the simplified pronunciation of westernized Hebrew used by the majority, the voweling is not always sensical, because the phonological reasons are blurred. There is no obvious reason any more, why you should say הַחַמּוּת („the warmth“ haħammuθ → haxamut), but הֶחָתוּל („the cat“ hεħɑ:θul → hexatul) or לַחֲבֵרִים („to friends“ laħăver → laxave:r), but לְחָבֵר („to a friend“ ləħɑ:ve:r → lexaver) or לְלֵב („to a heart“ ləle:v → lelev), but לִלְבָבוֹת („to hearts lilvɑ:vot –> lilvavot [from modern levavot]), if you use the modern five vowel system. Some rules are still binding like בְּ + הַ --> בַּ. Learn these. I myself use a sephardic, historizing pronunciation, therefore I follow the Biblical rules. In vowelled books with modern texts I see that the traditional נִקּוּד is always meteculously followed. The frontier between Biblical Hebrew and Israel Ivrit is not clear cut... Edited by Cabaire on 07 November 2013 at 11:14pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 8 of 10 07 November 2013 at 11:37pm | IP Logged |
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I know, but no one I know actually has ever used Biblical pronunciation. But your
explanation confirms my suspicion that apart from the fixed rules, I need to take it by ear and see how it works. Put it this way - I have NO interest in Biblical Hebrew, only in the Modern pronunciation which 96% of people use. But apparently the vowels are historically descended... that helps. Thanks. Edited by tarvos on 07 November 2013 at 11:39pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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