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How many reviews till secure in memory? | ||
Tags: Memory | Vocabulary learning | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4295 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes  Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 17 of 32 23 January 2014 at 12:22am | IP Logged | ||
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Each word and phrase is different so I wouldn't even put some artificial # like 160 as an average. Take a familiar
word "close" in English for instance: it can refer to "shut" such as "shut the door" and distance that is "near". In French we'd use "fermer" for "shut the door" & "près" for a location that is "near". In Chinese we'd use 关 guān such as 关门 guānmén for "close the door" and 近 jìn for "near". In English the word "close" can be applied in 2 different context while in other languages like French or Chinese we use 2 different words. Words that look alike we tend to need less time such as a doctor and le docteur in French, music and la musique in French, photographer and photographe in French. Other words or phrases that are completely different would take longer such as "come to my house" and "chez moi" in French. The same meaning but different context. Place names such as Shanghai with the same pinyin in Chinese except for the intonation: Shànghǎi and Beijing as Běijīng. Don't forget about word associations. Take the Chinese character: 空 kòng (space) for instance you can have 空气 kōngqì (air), 空位 kōngwèi (empty space), 空间 kōngjiān (space). 攀岩 pānyán (rock climbing) you would break into 2 characters: 攀 (to climb) and 岩 (rock / cliff); 烛光 zhúguāng you break it up into 2 characters: 烛 as in 蜡烛 làzhú for candle and 光 for light so you have candlelight. Some of the words you don't know may contain parts of other words you already know so makes learning easier. Edited by shk00design on 23 January 2014 at 12:24am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| schoenewaelder Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5411 days ago 759 posts - 1197 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 18 of 32 24 January 2014 at 2:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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According to the Goldlist theory, three, with each review taking about a minute.
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| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4516 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 19 of 32 24 January 2014 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | ||
Cool. So if I take all the suspended words in my Anki deck and spend 3 minutes on each all my problems will gone :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5079 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 20 of 32 24 January 2014 at 9:59pm | IP Logged | ||
It's never permanent; no matter how firmly you think you've got it, you might forget it tomorrow. That's why you use an SRS. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| JiriT Triglot Groupie Czech Republic Joined 4648 days ago 60 posts - 95 votes Speaks: Czech*, English, German | Message 21 of 32 25 January 2014 at 6:48pm | IP Logged | ||
Yes and no. The fact is one can forget his/her mother tongue when s/he lives in another country and has not been using his/her mother tongue any more. But it is possible to memorize a word in such a way that I remember it for say 2 or 3 year without any repetition. The question should be how many repetitions in a SRS are useful? I believe the repetitions later should be provided not by a memory drill (SRS) but by natural use. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Javi Senior Member Spain Joined 5832 days ago 419 posts - 548 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 22 of 32 25 January 2014 at 8:39pm | IP Logged | ||
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SRS is not about drilling but rather the opposite: the goal is to make do with as few repetitions as possible. For example a quit look at my best learned cards (those with intervals of more that 15 years) reveals an average of 7-10 reps. Not all of the words are common, everyday words. On the other hand, SRS and natural use are not incompatible: usually the more you encounter a word in a natural context, the less you see it in your SRS practice, and of course it's the other way round that makes SRS so useful. Edited by Javi on 25 January 2014 at 8:39pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| JiriT Triglot Groupie Czech Republic Joined 4648 days ago 60 posts - 95 votes Speaks: Czech*, English, German | Message 23 of 32 25 January 2014 at 9:46pm | IP Logged | ||
I am not quit sure about the terminology. By a SRS or memory drill I do not mean your repeat a word many times in one session. I mean this, you learn one day say 12 words (it is not important whether you use flashcards or word-lists. Then you repeat these words the next day and then in longer and longer intervals . The intervals may be fixed for the daily amount of words or you can repeat each word according to how well you knew the word (the words you know well you will repeat in a longer time, the words you knew with some difficulties you repeat in a shorter time and the words you did not know you repeat early). I call all this memory drill or a SRS. By repetition by natural use I mean this. You read a text or hear something in that language in speech. You understand the meaning (or the context helps you and you understand with the context help). Unlike in a SRS or memory drill, you do not repeat the words in predefined intervals. You do not learn (intentionally) the words but you use them. My experience is that my capacity for memory drill (as described above) is rather limited. And after memory drill I am a bit tired. But hearing or reading or even speaking a word in natural use does not consume you capacity for memorizing. One can revive a lot of words from their vocabulary almost effortlessly. When you use a language a lot and you know it well it is similar as when you use your mother tongue. When one repeats their mother tongue, it needs no special effort. But when you do not use your mother tongue for a long time, you will start forgetting it (at earlier stages you do not remember some words or you cannot use some words actively though when you hear them, you understand.). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Mooby Senior Member Scotland Joined 5956 days ago 707 posts - 1219 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish | Message 24 of 32 25 January 2014 at 11:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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The matter is quite complex in highly inflected languages where one can learn the word in it's nominative case, but barely recognise it in other cases. For me, some cases are trickier than others, like the dative feminine in Polish:
Take the English word 'star' : Polish nominative - gwiazda (a feminine noun). Polish dative - gwieździe I absolutely agree that the best way to assimilate these forms is a blend of drills (e.g Anki) and exposure to context. In this way one can begin to recognise the prepositions and verbs which govern cases, and thereby begin to build word associations and patterns which help to memorise a word in all it's forms. On another note, I'm fascinated by how people can memorise words made of characters or scripts different to their native language (like Arabic in my case). Edited by Mooby on 25 January 2014 at 11:47pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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