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The Guardian Article on Language Learning | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5416 days ago 938 posts - 1839 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 9 of 18 04 March 2014 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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SSiW = Say Something in Welsh
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| BAnna Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4473 days ago 409 posts - 616 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Turkish | Message 10 of 18 04 March 2014 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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I found a couple of updates through Twitter:
Spanish via Duolingo CMP=twt_gu"> Russian via Skype Couldn't find anything from the person studying French except a tweet: "Stayed up all night studying French". Sound familiar? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4295 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 11 of 18 09 March 2014 at 2:14am | IP Logged | ||
We all recognize the basics can be learned through phrase book, computer software, online videos. These include basic grammar rules such as subject-verb conjugation, counting numbers, telling, time and a few basic phrases like "Hello, how are you" in any language. Classroom instructions must be in the immersion format to be successful. I've been in French class before with everybody talking to each other in English while repeating phrases in French in front of a teacher. The exposure to the language is too limited because you spend more time communicating in English or a language you know already than your target language throughout the day. Don't assume the only human interaction is in a classroom. Moses McCormick the polyglot would be in a shopping mall anywhere and find all sorts of native speakers for 1 of half-dozen languages he studied but not at a high fluency level. The social interaction is helpful but just listening to a language from any source (radio, TV, online videos, etc.) you basically get your brain to actively think in the language. Unless you are in a country where you are talking in a language constantly, the next best thing would be to rely on listening to the sounds of a language through audio resources. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Retinend Triglot Senior Member SpainRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4159 days ago 283 posts - 557 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Arabic (Written), French | Message 12 of 18 09 March 2014 at 11:00pm | IP Logged | ||
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If I hadn't used the internet to research the multilingual world, I'd never have worked
out how to self-study a language. On the other hand, if I didn't work hard and invest the time needed to distinguish the hype and wishful-thinking from the good advice of Prof Arguelles and other polyglots with online profiles, I would have been sucked into disappointing hype machines and have wasted time, money and enthusiasm. I mean, check out this bare-faced viral propaganda for "Pimsleur": v=mSjG0nFaC_M">LINK LINK LINK]LINK[/URL] ...and so many other sites encourage building from words to sentences and not the other way around. This is the main problem of contemporary language instruction. Edited by Retinend on 09 March 2014 at 11:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6554 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 13 of 18 10 March 2014 at 11:23am | IP Logged | ||
Two good points, but I have some reservations. Actually I have tried 100% immersion in French with a very gifted teacher in the 'gymnasium' (the same as in German, approx. high school in American English) - and after 2½ years he realized that most of the class wouldn't pass the exam. Then he gave us ½ year of something close to good ol' grammar translation and that filled in the void so that almost everybody passed. Since then I have retained my belief that immersion is very important, but a bit of formal training will help a lot - and this formal training doesn't have to be in the target language (in fact it is better NOT to assume that beginners can understand an explanation in the target language),. People like Moses are very social, and apparently they don't mind addressing people in a shopping center in order to get some language training. I prefer having a good reason to disturb them, but once I have got one I don't mind intruding on complete strangers. The problem is that sheer need to speak a language isn't a sufficiently good reason in my world. Edited by Iversen on 10 March 2014 at 9:36pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6448 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 14 of 18 10 March 2014 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | ||
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Maybe one more issue here is that the exam was oriented at those who did grammar-translation? It's like your comparison about running and snooker. Immersion might not make you grammatically accurate fast, but you'll be much better at communicating and quite possibly also listening. If you measure immersion students' grammatical accuracy, you should also measure the communicational skills and listening of those who do grammar-translation.
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 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6760 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 15 of 18 10 March 2014 at 8:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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However, if all the instruction is done in the target language and the students have zero knowledge in the first place, I'm with Iversen. The closest thing to immersion I've experience was my week at Oideas Gael in Ireland last July. I learned a lot and the teacher was great BUT I wasn't a complete beginner.
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| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4490 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 16 of 18 11 March 2014 at 11:38am | IP Logged | ||
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To return to the original article in the Guardian, I find that the "challenge" seems to be of limited interest, as it will be impossible to evaluate the usefuleness of the three methods used (Rosetta Stone, DuoLingo and Skype lessons). If this were to have any sort of "scientific" value with the aim of comparing the effectiveness of the three methods, I think there are a number of criteria that would have to be met: The three should have studied the same language and they would have to be limited to the same number of hours per week. Only on that basis could you tell who of the three had benefited the most from the chosen method. However, even that approach would not count for individual differences - e.g. to what extent any of the three participants has studied languages before etc.
In any case, they are comparing apples and pears. The way I see it, Skype is not at all the same as Duolingo, Rosetta Stone or other online courses, as Skype is simply a communication tool between two individuals, in this case a language tutor and a student. For me, there is no principle difference between having a private class via Skype and having a tutor coming to your office or your home, just that the physical distance doesn't matter with Skype, so the tutor may be in Moscow and the student in London. And yes, with Rosetta Stone you can sit up all night studying, but I hardly think your Skype tutor will be happy if you wake her/him up at 3am with a grammar question. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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