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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| frascati Newbie United States Joined 3755 days ago 1 posts - 2 votes Studies: English* | Message 1 of 5 07 August 2014 at 5:24pm | IP Logged |
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I've tried to argue for years that "are we there yet" is grammatically incorrect.
I understand 'yet' to qualify a condition that persists, as in "I have yet to decide on a career". Or, "...and yet, I'm as unhappy as ever". Conversely, the condition of arrival is clearly assumed to have not yet been met in the first sentence. So shouldn't all examples of this very common construction be remedied with a negative? Not "are we there yet?" but "aren't we there yet?" (logically 'do-we-remain/are-we-yet, not there?") Better "aren't you finished yet" (do you persist in an unfinished state) than, "Are you finished yet?" ... which seems to me opposite one's meaning since it is grammatically equivalent to "do you still persist/remain in the state of being finished?". Again opposite the intent of the speaker. Or is the lack of a negative qualifier in many of these cases one more example of a construct that has become accepted through common use? Or am I entirely misapprehending the role of 'yet'? Edited by frascati on 07 August 2014 at 5:37pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Speakeasy Senior Member Canada Joined 4042 days ago 507 posts - 1098 votes  Studies: German | Message 2 of 5 07 August 2014 at 11:49pm | IP Logged |
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Frascati, this is an interesting question. However, to whom are you trying to “prove” this supposed incorrect use: to the members of this Language Forum, to your English teachers, to English grammarians, to native English speakers at large?
Since I was a small child, the expression “are we there yet” has been perfectly acceptable to my parents, my siblings, my friends, my classmates, my teachers, my colleagues, as well as to any other native English speaker that I have ever encountered. So, while an English grammarian might "prove" to me that your example is a case of “incorrect" usage, I know from personal experience that it is perfectly acceptable to anyone who uses the language on a daily basis. So, for your own peace of mind, I suggest that you should consider your position as being the “correct” one, and you should use it as “proof” of your advanced knowledge of English grammar along with your ability to identify one of its inexplicable exceptions. However, going further... Webster's, a notoriously “descriptive” dictionary that endorses just about anything that “we” say, as long as we say it often enough, includes the example “Has the mail arrived yet?” Webster's. If you disagree with them, please contact the publishers. Finally, concerning the usefulness of grammatical rules, for which I have the highest respect, it has been reported that Winston Churchill concocted the phrase "this is a situation up with which I will not put" as an example of how an excessive adherence to the rules of grammar can yield stilted speech. The rule was, as I am sure you know, that it is “incorrect” to end a phrase with a preposition ... “not put up with”, in this case. Edited by Speakeasy on 08 August 2014 at 12:08am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Elenia Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom lilyonlife.blog Joined 3846 days ago 239 posts - 327 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Swedish, Esperanto | Message 3 of 5 08 August 2014 at 11:35am | IP Logged |
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@Speakeasy
I assume it was that phrase that leads to the quite comical construction 'up with this I will not put!' said by Dylan Moran in an episode of his sitcom Black Books. The humour of the phrase is that it sounds wrong or 'off', and is said by a character who appears to be mangling his words in his indignation. It's strange to think that a grammatically correct construction can seem so wrong to native speakers that it becomes humourous. That being said, I don't think the OP's corrected phrases would sound incorrect to a native speaker, but to me they carry a different nuance to the original phrases. 'Aren't you finished yet?' and 'aren't we there yet' seem to carry more time and a little bit of incredulity about how long the journey or action is taking. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Stolan Senior Member United States Joined 4022 days ago 274 posts - 368 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Thai, Lowland Scots Studies: Arabic (classical), Cantonese | Message 4 of 5 11 August 2014 at 5:34am | IP Logged |
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Particles like that are sensitive to context, I can't imagine any situation using a word like "yet" being incorrect from
someones point of view, its a relative thing. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7195 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 5 of 5 11 August 2014 at 9:52am | IP Logged |
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This question was answered on The Simpsons. Edited by luke on 11 August 2014 at 9:52am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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