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How much is enough? | ||
Tags: Language Level Satisfaction | Fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Paco Senior Member Hong Kong Joined 4279 days ago 145 posts - 251 votes  Speaks: Cantonese* | Message 1 of 16 22 March 2015 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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Some study a foreign language for the language itself, but most learn one because they want to
be connected, to new people and to new cultures. But how much do you need? Can small bits of tourist phrases give you a good time in a bar? Will an Assimil bring you friends in the community? Is C2 required before native speakers accept you into their circles? Not sure if this is an interesting topic, but I am eager to listen to your stories :) (And I hope your stories will enlighten me as to whether an Assimil would prepare me to discover the Indian and Pakistani immigrant communities, and to join the Indonesian domestic helpers on holidays, in Hong Kong. I literally have never had any experience with people who can't speak a language I know to a decent level.) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5768 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 2 of 16 22 March 2015 at 3:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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It depends. It depends on your personality and the target language culture. And on how lucky you are to find native speakers who like you and want to include you into their circle of friends. On much your friendships depend on doing things together, and how much they depend on intense discussions. I would think anything from being a great communicator knowing a few words and being included by somebody who is interested into you romantically or treats you like they are an elder relative who is fond of you, to having C1 or higher skills and years of experience living in the target language community to become part of the group. I also think there sometimes is a difference between being accepted by the native speakers as a foreign friend or as part of the group, and between feeling accepted or comfortable in the group yourself. Edited by Bao on 22 March 2015 at 3:16pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4709 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 3 of 16 22 March 2015 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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I've only covered half of a few Mandarin textbooks and studied some few hundred
characters and I am succeeding at Mandarin immersion, so... your pick? The onus on the user to act upon their immersion opportunities. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4951 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 4 of 16 24 March 2015 at 2:51am | IP Logged | ||
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Obviously it is a very subjective issue so no one is right or wrong.
Because I have no use for small talk (which probably is why I now struggle with women, I mean now because before I didn't but then again that was before age 23, when talk doesn't matter as much :\-- I totally digressed), I need to learn any language to at least a high B1, and really a B2 level before I enjoy conversing with others. If I can get by in convo about science, politics, or history, then I feel "satisfied" with a language, though not satiated! My French, German, and Portuguese got to that level and I was happy, but I still wanted to improve and reach C1, and that is still my goal. Five years + ago I set myself to learn French, German, Portuguese, and Mandarin Chinese to C1 level. I gave myself no deadline (though generally within 5-7 years floated in my head), just the goal. I cannot believe what I have achieved thus far. By the end of next year (2016), I SHOULD be at a solid B2 in French, German, Portuguese, and hopefully after a year in China a solid B1 if not close to (or at, why not), B2 in Mandarin. So then I would just have to make that final massive effort to C1 in the four languages, which does seem like mission impossible really. So I may have to re-assess. Then again, I have the rest of my life to reach those levels, even though I would like to reach those levels in all four before 2020. (Italian would sort of come into play having learned it as a child, and then forgotten it) I would like to then study languages as a hobby, and not as a mission it has been to this point. I want to learn Russian, Hindi, and Dutch to high A2 or decent B1. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4446 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 5 of 16 24 March 2015 at 4:58am | IP Logged | ||
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When I was travelling around in Europe, there were countries like Switzerland, Germany to some extent where
the people understand enough English that you can just walk into a shop and buy something. Once I was in Paris. A man had a stand on the street selling roast lamb. We tried to communicate a little bit but he didn't know enough English so there was a lot of finger pointing and after that I took out some coins to pay the bill and let him give the appropriate change. A while back, a man of Chinese ancestry went to Beijing for a few months to learn acupuncture. He lived in Jamaica with limited knowledge of his native Hakka dialect and basically speaks English all the time. During his 6-month stay in China, he relied on people around him to ask for directions and to take him places. The whole training program was conducted in English with all the Chinese medical terms translated. I don't think he even picked up the basic greetings like "nihaoma" 你好嗎. I'd normally label expat Chinese who visit China as the "invisible" foreigners. They blend into the crowd but don't have enough Mandarin skills to participate in conversations with locals. 1 summer I was in Taiwan for study and vacation. 1 Chinese lady who lives in England would ask me to accompany her to the night market because I knew enough Mandarin to bargain with the local vendors. At the busy shopping area, there were a lot of back and forth like: "Tell the salesman such and such" and "What did he say?" as if I had become the official translator. Knowing a few words here and there like "Buon Giorno" for Good Morning in Italian is just being courteous when visiting another country. Speaking a few words show you have some interest in other people's culture but won't be enough for you to carry on a conversation. Edited by shk00design on 24 March 2015 at 7:35am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Retinend Triglot Senior Member SpainRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4310 days ago 283 posts - 557 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Arabic (Written), French | Message 6 of 16 24 March 2015 at 10:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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Friendship is difficult. I've resigned myself to the notion that the first year or two is
a time to be building the language, which is the groundwork for building real friendships. Just like how learning arithmetic is not endeavored upon simultaneously with learning set theory. Making a real friendship with a person who doesn't speak your language is going to be unlikely before that magic point. Being young is a red herring: students are very willing with their time and if you speak English natively you're automatically more tolerable. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5238 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 7 of 16 25 March 2015 at 10:06am | IP Logged | ||
Why do you thing women are any more interested in 'small talk' than you are? Perhaps you'd be better off discussing politics, etc. :) 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4709 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 8 of 16 28 March 2015 at 6:55am | IP Logged | ||
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Ah yes, women over 25 only do small talk. I forgot about that factoid of life...
The trick with "what's enough" is so contextual to everybody's lives that you should focus on the words that are useful to you first and then add as you go on. I know a lot of toponyms in various languages because I have travelled to some 20+ countries, so this is important, but how to say "gardener" is something I learn later because I don't have a garden (only at home in the Netherlands) and even then we don't have a gardener). It's enough when you think it is. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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