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Pronunciation of L1 words when speak L2 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4289 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 1 of 20 23 April 2015 at 3:26am | IP Logged | ||
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I always debated to myself how to pronounce L1 words that appear during speech of some
L2, L3, etc. For example, many Hispanophones use a completely Spanish pronunciation of English (or any other language) words, proper nouns, names, etc. when they speak Spanish. However, I notice that the Germanic countries use the Anglophone pronunciation when they pronounce English names, proper nouns, and words. I just heard CFK, the President of Argentina speak in Moscow today with her signing of new ties with Putin and Russia she said, «Quiero dirigirme a agradecerle a Victoria Porontsova, por RT, Russia Today, recién incorporada señal de noticias en español, para todo el mundo, excelente por cierto...» except that the English name "Russia Today" is pronounced in a Spanish way, like "eh-rú-si-a eh-tu-e-dé". Someone from Norway or Denmark would probably pronounce it using Anglophone pronunciation. But then I wondered, since I am a native Anglophone, who also speaks Spanish (not natively though), if it sounds right for me to pronounce an English name like that with the Spanish pronunciation or the English one. I can read it using Spanish alphabet instead of English alphabet, for example, but the difference with using an authentic accent is that in this case, since I speak English natively, I know how to pronounce the English name the Anglophone way. So there seem to be two results that I foresee that could happen: either 1) I pronounce it the English way but then the Hispanophones think that I sound posh because I show that I pronounce it properly, or 2) I pronounce it the Hispanophone way but risk sounding like I am making fun of them for being unable to speak English or at least pronounce English words and names. My recent strategy is to pronounce things in L2 way by pretending not to know English, which seems to somewhat avoid the problem (provided that they do not see my passports!) but I wonder what others do here. This can also be extended for L3 in L2, like if whilst speaking Spanish, I had to pronounce "Tromsø", which I can do in Norwegian pronunciation instead of the Spanish way which almost all Hispanophones do not know how to pronounce the "ø" and just use "o". If I prononuce it Spanish way they might think that I am implying to them that they cannot pronounce things in other languages properly, but if I pronounce it Norwegian way they might think that I am showing off some sort of linguistic skill or sound like I am over-educated. Edited by 1e4e6 on 23 April 2015 at 3:31am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4706 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 2 of 20 23 April 2015 at 3:47am | IP Logged | ||
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I pronounce it the proper way - whatever that language prefers. Notice that some cities
have their own names in some languages; you can't say Paris in Dutch, you HAVE to say Parijs. Londen over London, Moskou over Moskva and so on. If that language tends to Anglicize the pronunciation I will do this when speaking Norwegian or Swedish; I will not when speaking Mandarin or Spanish. Edited by tarvos on 23 April 2015 at 3:49am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6596 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 3 of 20 23 April 2015 at 4:30am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm struggling with this forever too.
For countries and cities I definitely use the correct L2 name if it exists, same with 100% established loan words. As for something like Tromsø, I would aim for remaining in the ballpark but staying close enough to the correct pronunciation that I don't cringe inside. Although I find that with enough exposure this no longer sounds jarring. People pronounce things as they can, and historically that's what they always did really. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| basica Senior Member Australia Joined 3535 days ago 157 posts - 269 votes Studies: Serbian | Message 4 of 20 23 April 2015 at 4:31am | IP Logged | ||
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I tend to "nativize" it if that's what they do. When I was in Japan I would just use the English pronunciation of words that had been "nativized" and found no one understood me and I'd ask for a coke and get a coffee instead and that sort of a thing. From that I just started adapting to their pronunciation,
2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| robarb Nonaglot Senior Member United States languagenpluson Joined 5058 days ago 361 posts - 921 votes Speaks: Portuguese, English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, French Studies: Mandarin, Danish, Russian, Norwegian, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, Polish, Greek, Latin, Nepali, Modern Hebrew | Message 5 of 20 23 April 2015 at 5:11am | IP Logged | ||
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If it's something they will pronounce without hesitation: do exactly what they do, whether it's similar to the original
language pronunciation or not. At this point the pronunciation has essentially been adapted into the language, and you should use it. If it's something they will look at and say "huh, that's a weird foreign word, I don't know how to pronounce it," then pronounce it using the closest approximation to the original language pronunciation that you can achieve using only sounds that exist in the language you're speaking. Do not switch out of your L2 accent and use the actual original pronunciation unless they also speak that language so it would be normal to code switch, or you want to emphasize the fact that you speak that language at the cost of sounding pretentious. Edited by robarb on 23 April 2015 at 5:11am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| chaotic_thought Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 3541 days ago 129 posts - 274 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Dutch, French | Message 6 of 20 23 April 2015 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | ||
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If the other speaker is speaking a language from the same family like German or Dutch, then the words will probably sound very similar, but similar doesn't mean the same.
There is also the separate issue noted above of different words being used for naming things. For example Parijs in Dutch is a completely different word from Paris in English, but I suspect Dutch speaking people have no problem saying "Paris" if they felt like it (but why would they?). There is also the German word Paris, spelled "Paris" as in English but pronounced in a completely different way from the English word for Paris, which is also spelled "Paris". But German speakers will have no trouble with the word Paris itself, for example, as it occurs in the name "Paris Hilton". Unless, of course, you're dictating a text in which the name "Paris Hilton" appears printed on the page but you've never heard the name "Paris Hilton" pronounced before. In that case, you will probably just say it in whatever way first comes into your mind. And that's just fine too. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4520 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 7 of 20 23 April 2015 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | ||
Would be just weird to dictate a text about some Greek guy (/'pɑ.ris/ in German) with a strange surname when the text suddenly is about purses, cute dogs and party scandals. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| holly heels Groupie United States Joined 3885 days ago 47 posts - 107 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 8 of 20 24 April 2015 at 12:15am | IP Logged | ||
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I make a point of using the Mandarinized pronounciation of American place names whenever possible, not to show off, but to prevent others from knowing what I am talking about.
In a recent conversation I said "Ya-li-sang-na", which is the Mandarin word for "Arizona", and "De-zhou", the Mandarin word for "Texas", rather than the Anglicized pronounciations of those place names, which themselves are not "Anglo" names to begin with. Out of respect to Mandarin native speakers I say "Dong-jing" for "Tokyo" or "Xi-la" for "Greece", because they may not know the Anglicized versions of those words. There doesn't seem to be a hard-and-fast rule in Mandarin about what pronounciation is acceptable. I have watched Mandarin news where they have used "Sierra Leone", "Sai-la Li'-ang", or "Shi-zi Shan", which means "Lion Mountain". 1 person has voted this message useful |
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