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AJATT and other languages | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| TeDejoMadrid Trilingual Heptaglot Newbie United Kingdom Joined 6444 days ago 8 posts - 8 votes Speaks: Italian*, Spanish*, Arabic (Levantine)*, EnglishC1, FrenchB2, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Cantonese, Japanese | Message 1 of 9 10 November 2008 at 3:33pm | IP Logged | ||
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I've recently discovered the website alljapaneseallthetime.com and it has really inspired and encouraged me - the method seems to make sense and I'm impressed by the results the site author has had.
I'm now thinking that I may try this method to learn Japanese myself, or even possibly German (that's a decision for later), and that's the reason for this post. Has anyone on this forum ever used this method to learn either Japanese or any other language for that matter? If so, how long did it take you? Did you have the same results as Khatzumoto? Any advice you guys have is greatly appreciated. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| maya_star17 Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5921 days ago 269 posts - 291 votes  Speaks: English*, Russian*, French, Spanish Studies: Japanese | Message 2 of 9 14 November 2008 at 1:19am | IP Logged | ||
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I did something pretty similar to the method described on that site for about 2 years, albeit in French.
The Francophones I talk to are rarely able to tell that French isn't my first language. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| furrykef Senior Member United States furrykef.com/ Joined 6478 days ago 681 posts - 862 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Latin, Italian | Message 3 of 9 14 November 2008 at 3:24am | IP Logged | ||
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One area where I disagree with Khatzumoto is his emphasis on recognition (recognizing and understanding Japanese sentences) instead of production (producing Japanese sentences yourself). I find studying production to be far more useful.
Unfortunately I haven't applied the actual AJATT method. It's hard to apply it to Spanish since a lot of stuff that has been translated into Spanish has crappy translations and I have no way to tell what's good and what isn't. There also just isn't nearly as much fun stuff like video games in Spanish as there is in Japanese -- at least, out of what I've managed to find so far. I may apply the AJATT method to Japanese eventually, but I'm going to ease myself into it instead of diving right in. - Kef Edited by furrykef on 14 November 2008 at 3:30am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| maya_star17 Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5921 days ago 269 posts - 291 votes Speaks: English*, Russian*, French, Spanish Studies: Japanese | Message 4 of 9 14 November 2008 at 10:51pm | IP Logged | ||
I think Khatz is right in the sense that, if you don't have somebody there who's willing to correct you all the time and carefully guide you, it's easy to fall into the trap of making mistakes - and getting used to those mistakes (making it hard to re-learn the correct way to say things later on). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| thairob Triglot Newbie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6274 days ago 4 posts - 4 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese, Thai Studies: Mandarin | Message 5 of 9 15 November 2008 at 12:03am | IP Logged | ||
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I've been doing the AJATT method for about a year and yes it works. Follow his advice completely in the beginning stages. Keep receiving input as much as possible all day and night. Be patient and learn all the kanji through Heisig. For me this took about four months.
Just recently though I gave up the SRS way of collecting sentences because I found it just wasn't advancing me as much as I wanted. Khatzumoto's logic behind using the SRS is once you find a new phrase or sentence, by putting it in the SRS program it will keeping recurring for you to review until eventually you have it down pat. This may be true, but quite frankly, it is boring. Once I read a particular sentence, I don't want to practice that same sentence ad nauseum until it is stuck in my head. So what I do now is still take in input all the time, but instead of using an SRS, I just read. Mostly I read short online newspaper articles that catch my attention or look interesting. I find ones that are relatively short and also have audio of the reading. Then I go sentence by sentence and look up any new words and practice saying and writing each sentence. By the time I'm through I can read the whole article. Then the next day I will try and see if I can read it again without getting stuck on any words. (I pretend I'm a Japanese newscaster reading the news) Then I'll put it away for a few days and read it again. It's kind of the same principle as an SRS but it is an entire article where the words have context that my brain can identify with so I'm practicing the flow of the language as opposed to an SRS where you try and remember scattered sentences at random. Anyway, I find that this way is more fun and works well for me. In the few weeks that I've been doing it this way, I've found that my reading and vocabulary has really taken off. Hope this helps. Good luck! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6681 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 6 of 9 15 November 2008 at 3:04am | IP Logged | ||
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Khatzumoto's method works, because it's simple:
1-Clear and strong goal. 2-Massive action towards this goal= intensity + TIME (whatever language allthetime) Fun factor is important here, because if you find something fun, you will work more time and harder due to the fact that it's reinforcing.. Behaviorist principles here. The exact method it's not important. The most important factor is TIME and intensity using the target language. For example: I find useful SRS, because it's fun for me, but I agree with thairob. If you find boring SRS, give up this strategy. If you have a strong goal, the best method is the method you don't give up and make you work with the language even if you don't pay attention = TIME and INTENSITY. It all boils down to this. Edited by slucido on 15 November 2008 at 3:10am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| scootermclean Diglot Groupie United States scottmclean.net Joined 6484 days ago 69 posts - 70 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Arabic (Written), Basque | Message 7 of 9 17 November 2008 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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slucido, I think you laid out the theory behind his method well.
I have been thinking about what he does in practice and how to apply that to other languages. I dont know much about Japanese, but would his Phase 2: Kanji be equivalent to just memorizing an initial set of vocabulary. And then Phase 3: Sentences, would be the same, picking sentences from reliable sources and then learning them through an SRS. and then moving onto literature... all the while, you are listening to your target language non-stop. This seems akin to using Assimil with an SRS, you could take the individual lines out of the assimil book and use them with an srs. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Javi Senior Member Spain Joined 5987 days ago 419 posts - 548 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 8 of 9 17 November 2008 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | ||
I just wanted to point out that there isn't anything in the SRS principle about how long must be the stuff you put in it. Short sentences is just the way this man uses and recommends, but he isn't the author of neither the SRS principle nor any SRS tool until I know. He is not the first person using these tools in language learning either. You can use long sentences or even complete texts or dialogues if that's what you want. The SRS principle will remain the same. For example, I've got a lot of single-word items, but all my SRS 'sentences' come from my favourite TV show, just one TV show at the moment. It consists of extracts from dialogues, five lines or twenty, it doesn't matter, whatever makes sense to me at that moment. One of the advantages I see in using long sentences is that they will probably contain more than one new expression. That way I can use that extract to illustrate each one of those new or puzzling expressions and get to see the text much more often without having to trick the scoring system. So while I'm filling in the blank of one of those expressions, I'm reading the others, which are in the system too. I've got the videos as well, so if you want to use this method I suppose you've got to be the kind of person that can watch and read some stuff dozens of times and still come back for more, but I prefer to use SRS in this intensive way with the core of the language, the oral language, and let the rest come to me through reading. I add very few sentences from written language to the SRS program. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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